"The Honeymooners" Classic 39 One at a Time (Episode-by-Episode Thread)

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by RayS, Mar 7, 2017.

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  1. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

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    At the end, when Alice is all decked out and Ralph asks what she is doing, there is an awkward pause (at about 23:40). The Ralph says "Oh, look out now", at the same time Alice starts to explain, and she stops for a moment. And then Alice talks about why she is acting that way. I can't tell if she forgot her line and Gleason was covering for her, or if she was waiting for his line, and he forgot it for a moment.
     
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  2. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

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    IMO, Meadows was all ready to with her next line. Gleason's ad lib was in response to Audrey blowing smoke into his face (if this wasn't scripted, kudos to her for throwing it in). She hesitated long enough to not step on his ad lib, and then continued on with the script.
     
  3. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

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    The Bensonhurst Bomber

    One of my favorites too. This has to be the episode with the smallest role for Alice. In the Classic 39, Ralph turns out to be quite the pugilist. This is the 2nd guy he has knocked out. It was an interesting way to fake the punch too. Gleason kind of went across the guy's chest, but seemed to throw it pretty hard.

    For all of Gleason and Ralph's supposed billiard skills, he has missed every shot he has taken, which I think has been on purpose.
     
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  4. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

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    Dial J For Janitor

    I actually really like this one. I like the plot, and the different setting. I wonder how much it cost to make a set like the boiler room. This is the only episode we see it, correct? Pretty elaborate for one ten minute bit.

    The most foolish thing Ralph did was install the house phone. Do you realize how long it would take to run that kind of communications system to each apartment? He could have fixed every problem in the building in the time it would take to install that system.
     
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  5. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

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    The "Treasury" contains extensive excerpts for an alternate script for this episode. In that script, the Kramdens move into a basement apartment, and after the Nortons still can't get any water, they move into the Kramdens apartment. The script features a gag that was used (more or less) on "I Love Lucy" - the entire apartment shaking every time the subway goes by. Gleason apparently didn't like the idea of having the Kramdens outside of their familiar surroundings and the alternative script was used instead.
     
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  6. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
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    One of the standout dialogues between Ralph and Norton, from Act II, Scene 1:
    Ralph: If I told you once, I told you a hundred times: Don't call me 'janitor'. I am a maintenance engineer.
    Norton: Would you mind engineering a little maintenance and getting my pipes fixed up in my place, please?

    The role of the landlord, Mr. Johnson, was played in this and "Please Leave the Premises" by the late Luis Van Rooten who did much radio and TV, and some film. Can anyone say with certainty how many actors besides him and Jack Benny (who was the landlord in one of the 1954-55 "Lost" episodes) played their landlord over the years?

    And the way Ralph looked in this, especially in closeups, makes me wonder if this and "The $99,000 Answer" were filmed in the same week.
     
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  7. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
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    To show just how big Honeymoonermania was in the '80's, one of Ralph's quotes from the poolroom scene - in which he goes on about "the glorious results of a misspent youth" - was appropriated for the title of one of Joan Jett & The Blackhearts' albums, from 1984:
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

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    Episode #39 - "A Man's Pride"

    Aired: 9-22-56



    The Classic 39 don't go out with a whimper but with a bang. Another classic. For my money, Gleason's reaction to being stuck with the check ranks only behind the "blabbermouth" tirade in "A Matter of Record" for the funniest moment in the Classic 39.

    Unless I blinked somewhere, Trixie was missing from all 3 of the final episodes.

    Dick Bernie, who played Bill Davis, had already done a bit part as a Raccoon, and a larger part as Joe Fensterblau in "Head of the House". He also was in a lost episode the previous year, playing a boxing manager when Ralph tried his hand at managing a heavyweight (Are you shocked to find out that it didn't work out so well?)

    The fight posters at "Madison Square Garden" are all graffitied over so the names in the main events are difficult to make out. Was this authentic set dressing or done for other (legal?) reason?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the only one of the Classic 39 to use 4 sets (many of the shows don't even have 4 acts).

    [​IMG]
    This restaurant occupies the corner where the Gotham Bus Company used to fictionally stand (9th & 48th). Nine blocks uptown, between 8th and 9th, is the Colonnade Building. It doesn't appear to have a room for fancy dining, and since it wasn't built until the early 1980s it clearly was named as a Honeymooners cash-in. Like this place in London. Yeah, that's the ticket.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    Actually, Trixie did appear in this Classic 39 "swan song" - albeit only offscreen. She was the one who, in the start of Act II, Scene 1, shouted out, "Alice, oh Alice . . . " before bringing down the phone.

    Also, a self-plug: In the early minutes of the final scene in the restaurant, playing in the background is the instrumental "Marilyn" (supposedly written for his then-flame, and later third wife - not Marilyn Monroe who'd attended one of The Great One's birthday parties at Toots Shor's, and who [with Joe DiMaggio] posed with him in a pic that turned up in Audrey Meadows' memoir Love, Alice) from Gleason's 1955 album Music To Remember Her, and you could (before the music faded out) hear a bit of Bobby Hackett's trumpet in there. It is the only episode where this was played at normal speed; that recording of "Marilyn" was also heard as the background music to the movie Ralph was barely keeping awake in (albeit played at 20% higher pitch, or approximately 40 RPM) at the start of the final scene of the premiere episode "TV Or Not TV." As well, a Dixieland jazz-arranged version of that number was played in the final scene of "The Man From Space" - which, if you pay attention closely, used two different camera shots of the same "dancing" by Ralph, thus a bit of trickery was used in that one. The full song, please . . .


    And while I'm on "TV Or Not TV" . . . the supposed "Galloping Ghost Of Mystery Gulch" movie used a piece of library music that later turned up in, of all places, Ed Wood's most famous bad movie Plan 9 From Outer Space.

    Oh, and as for the writing on those posters in Act I, Scene 1 . . . certainly sounds like for legal reasons to me. Also why the Gotham Bus address was given as 9th and 48th; there was an actual bus depot on 9th and 54th, run by New York City Omnibus and/or Fifth Avenue Coach (certainly, from 1956 to 1962, by Fifth Avenue Coach Lines) "back then," and for decades after 1962 by the Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority (MaBSTOA); the route Ralph would have handled was not administered by that particular depot that I know of. As of 1976, the routes stationed there were:
    - Broadway, Seventh and Sixth Avenues M6 (discontinued in 2010)
    - 79th Street crosstown M17 (now M79+SBS)
    - 86th Street crosstown M18 (now M86+SBS)
    - 57th Street crosstown M28 (now M57)
    - 72nd Street crosstown M30 (folded into M72)
    - Fifth and Madison Avenues / Jackson Heights M32 (now Q32)
    - Elmhurst crosstown Q89 (discontinued in 1988)
    - 59th Street crosstown M103 (later M58, now defunct)
    - 42nd Street crosstown M106 (now M42)
    The depot was closed in 1992, and demolished in 1996-97.

    Two depots NYC Omnibus did run at the outset of the "Classic 39" were located at 100th Street and Lexington Avenue, and 146th Street and Lenox Avenue.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
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  10. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

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    Yes, I blinked and didn't "see" Trixie the maid. :)

    Thanks for the interesting information about the music. Listening to this YouTube clip I can immediately hear that this is also the costume party song. Cool!

    Now I have a reason to go back and watch "Plan 9 From Outer Space" for the first time in decades!
     
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  11. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

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    Indeed, a great finish!

    The crowd went crazy over Ralph simply saying, "I don't want either, Ill take black coffee."

    I didn't find it very funny unless I missed something.

    Thanks for running this thread Ray.

    I agree that this is the greatest single season in television history.
     
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  12. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

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    You're welcome.

    I believe the joke there was that what Ralph ordered (a small cup of black coffee) essentially IS demi tasse (he just doesn't know it).
     
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  13. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

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    I'd like to throw the floor open to anyone who wants to post anything at all that is "Honeymooners" related.

    Official space helmet off Captain Video, wherever you are!
     
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  14. Benno123

    Benno123 Forum Resident

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    Shall we discuss lost episodes related skits? Don't have to do all but select ones ...
     
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  15. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

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    I am too uncultured to know the difference too! :D
     
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  16. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

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    I would be interested in a list of Lost Episodes you guys think reach Classic 39 levels. I have seen none of these.

    It is interesting that Gleason shut it down after one season, so as not to drop in quality. There is no way a show that great would stop after one season today. The money would come calling.

    It was the first sitcom, and still may be the best after all these years.
     
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  17. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

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    Also, what is the best version available for the Lost Episodes?

    Thanks
     
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  18. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

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    Sure. Lead the way mine host. :)
     
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  19. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    That would be "mein host" - Norton used a combo of German and English in that one.

    Actually, that was part of it. The other was that Gleason's hand was forced, if you will, because after that one season Buick pulled out of sponsoring the show, and CBS - loath to offend one of their important sponsors - subtly nudged Gleason to '86' it. As well, 'Electronicam' was doomed by the advent, by the end of 1956, of something called 'video tape' (called 'television tape' by RCA). Furthermore, its #20 position in the ratings (below #19 for Perry Como) was a far cry from Gleason's variety show ranking #2 in the 1954-55 season. (In 1956-57, Gleason didn't even make the Top 30.) Strange given how iconic those 39 shows ultimately became.

    If we're going to discuss 'Lost' episodes, I'd also venture a review of some of the color episodes, as well. "Ralph Kramden Presents," I.M.H.O., is a favorite of mine. It fit that period much more than the 'Lost' period, especially the way the shows went by then. "To Whom It May Concern" (remake of "Letter To The Boss") had Paul Ford (ex Col. Hall of The Phil Silvers Show) as the boss in the remake - referred to as "George" Marshall (wait a minute, wasn't he 'J.J.' Marshall in the Lost / Classic 39 period?). George Petrie made a few appearances here and there in the color period. The 'Gleason players' in the color years included the likes of such actors as Robert Dryden, Johnny Morgan and Howard St. John. And Pert Kelton - the first Alice Kramden - played her mother in one memorable episode ("Rififi, Brooklyn Style"). At least one color episode had a cameo from Milton Berle.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
  20. Splungeworthy

    Splungeworthy Forum Rezidentura

    Re: Dial J For Janitor:
    Added to the lexicon: "Asperine". I use "bag 'a shells" a lot, too. Man I say many things that get strange looks.
    $150.00/month is about $500.00 now.
    I love that Ralph wears a belt over his coveralls. Ralph's coughing and his subsequent comment clearly was improvised. The 1956 technology required to install that house phone cannot be overestimated. That roast beef looked awfully dry. The whole stuck between pipes bit had to be very uncomfortable for a large man like Gleason. Mrs. Manicotti to the rescue!
    Re: A Man's Pride:
    Marshall's reaction to Ralph sitting at his desk is surprisingly mild. Gleason flubbed the lines about Davis calling Alice: "He called Norton-she called her up today". I love when Gleason leads Alice to the dance floor doing some trademark Gleason moves. The audience knew exactly what was going to happen when Ralph tells Alice he'll offer to pay the bill. The brilliance of Gleason is on full display during that closeup after he gets the bill.
    Thanks @RayS. This has been an awesome thread-probably one of the most enjoyable I've seen at SH.tv. If we start looking at Lost Episodes I'll try to contribute, but honestly I'm much less familiar with those, but I do have the box set and I will at least be lurking about.
     
  21. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    Great thread. I've only been able to keep up with about a third of it, but every time I put on a HONEYMOONERS episode, I'm never disappointed,
     
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  22. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

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    My pleasure.

    As you all might have guessed, this is my all-time favorite TV show.

    I think this is also my earliest memory of anything on TV. My father loved Gleason and "The Honeymooners", so Saturday nights when I was 5 years old always included "From the sun and fun capital of the world, Miami Beach ..."

    Speaking of which, while all of the Classic 39 are on YouTube, lost and color episodes are much harder to come by online.

    Here's one. The first of the color episodes, and the start of the Trip To Europe cycle. This is (mostly) a remake of a lost episode ("The Box Top Kid"). See how long it takes you to figure out the most famous role that the actor playing Alice's brother-in-law Frank had.

    The Jackie Gleason Show - 'In 25 Words Or Less' - FIRST and FULL Episode (COLOR) (Aired September 17,1966) - Video Dailymotion
     
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  23. EddieMann

    EddieMann I used to be a king...

    Location:
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    What a wonderful thread. Not one argument or complaint in 22 pages. I have always felt that The Honeymooners was perhaps the greatest TV comedy ever. Nothing in this thread has changed my mind. Thanks Ray!
     
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  24. Splungeworthy

    Splungeworthy Forum Rezidentura

    Has anyone ever gotten to the end of one of these kinds of threads, besides this one? I don't think I've even seen an album-by-album thread actually finish, and if so, they're rare.
     
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  25. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

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    The Woody Allen film-by-film thread made it to the end. I'd guess we were at it for about 6 months? I also did a John Prine album-by-album thread that made it to the end. I have a tendency for finishing things - "A" personality and all that I guess.
     
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