"The Leftovers" (HBO series)

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by AKA, Jun 29, 2014.

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  1. Steve Martin

    Steve Martin Wild & Crazy Guy

    Location:
    Plano, TX
    I kept expecting those shots to pull back a little and reveal Toto in a basket on the front of her bike.
     
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  2. lschwart

    lschwart Senior Member

    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    I don't see why we'd make that assumption.

    L.
     
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  3. Splungeworthy

    Splungeworthy Forum Rezidentura

    Yeah...that's what I was looking at....;)
    Anyway...blah blah blah Carrie Coon and Justin Theroux Emmy noms blah blah blah...
    So it doesn't look like we're too concerned with spoiler tags, here are some thoughts:
    As was predicted on many TV forums they brought back Iris Dement for the opening credits, only driving home like a jackhammer the whole point of the show, along with Nora's story; that we do what we have to do to cope with tragedy, some things can't be explained rationally, and will always remain a mystery. If you look at the scene where she's in the pod filling with liquid, as it gets to her mouth she starts to say "St.." and then they cut away-I think it's clear she was trying to say "Stop!". I don't believe her story for a second, but it is kind of cruel to Kevin: she "left", came back and didn't want to try to find him.
    Let's be honest here-Kevin and Nora's was not a love story for the ages. I think Peg and Al Bundy were happier. And because I wasn't that invested in their story, them finding each other in the end did not have the resonance that I thought it would. It was touching, for sure, (I welled up) but these two were always going to have significant issues.
    It was also a little far-fetched that she went through all that trouble to find her family, but didn't want to at least connect with her children. And it took her to convince the physicist to create a machine to bring her back to 98% land? Nobody else had this idea?
    I'm glad Laurie's not dead. I wonder where her fetus ended up (assuming you believe Nora about 2% land).
    All in all I'm glad I watched. It's probably the most enigmatic show since The Prisoner. It gets you thinking. It's quite open to interpretation, which is what great art is supposed to be. The finale was maybe the least mind bending episode in the whole series, and it actually wrapped things up (and I don't think anybody reasonably expected the Departure to be explained). So, back to Veep!
     
  4. bopdd

    bopdd Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Basically only three things could've happened:

    1) Nora's telling the truth and everything went down as narrated.

    2) Nora changed her mind at the last second, jumped out of the tank and ran off to live as a recluse.

    3) Nora was obliterated in the tank and entered the realm of the dead, which in this show seems to exist as a place dictated by psychology (or maybe even karma) but still somewhat bound by the principles of reality.

    Any of the above scenarios could've happened and there's support for all of them. In support of #3:

    1) Kevin mentions a heart condition--maybe he actually died and that's why that's why he's finally arrived.

    2) The implication that Laurie committed suicide, which is why she's here in this realm.

    3) Hints in the finale that Nora's story shouldn't be taken at face value.

    Again, I'm not supporting one scenario over the next, but I do think the show was presenting all three as possible outcomes. Ultimately, I think the message is that Kevin and Nora are meant to be together regardless of what happened or what plane of existence they might be on. Also, I think scenario #3 is the weakest interpretation because among other things Kevin mentions his kids, who would presumably have to be dead to just to exist here. Nevertheless, I still think the show leaves it open as a possibility, even if it's the least likely.
     
  5. lschwart

    lschwart Senior Member

    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    I'm complete with you on 1 and 2, but there's much too little--maybe nothing--to suggest that the world we're presented with in the episode has anything to do with the world that Kevin visited (or "visited") in earlier episodes. Why would everyone be dead (all of the main cast is accounted for in conversation--Matt is dead; are we to assume he's the only one who didn't die?), and why no weird alternative identities? And what about the idea that Kevin nuked that world because he has decided never to return to it? As I said, I don't see why we'd make the assumption.

    L.
     
  6. bopdd

    bopdd Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    For one, you're potentially misreading the "realm of the dead" as being too fixed in nature. Remember, Kevin visited that realm multiple times and even changed roles depending on visit and objective. Secondly, there are things like the fact that in that realm Evie had no memory of her previous life, indicating that at least some of the characters are taking their existence at face value. There's also the fact that the woman Kevin kills the first time is alive and well the last time, which implicates this world is both dynamic and eternal in nature and no "nuking" is going to change that. In other words, the nuking could've had more symbolic value for Kevin (i.e. he nuked his own immortality and maybe destroyed that particular variation of his own fate) than anything else. Furthermore, you're assuming that because Matt's not around he's not dead, but that doesn't have to be the case. He just might not have a role in Nora/Kevin's world--a world sustained by Kevin/Nora's psychological insistence that they're both actually alive (like Evie). But it's all just conjecture and as I mentioned I'm not suggesting it's the outcome at all. That said, I'm not as willing to just write it off as a possible interpretation. Even when you take the ambiguity surrounding Laurie off the table, or take away the finale's brief but substantial implication that sometimes the lie can be more beneficial than the truth, there remains the core idea that Nora was risking death by getting in that tank.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
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  7. Veltri

    Veltri ♪♫♫♪♪♫♫♪

    Location:
    Canada
    Also they made it a point to say that her brother was listening in on the whole thing, so we knew it wouldn't be too late to back out.
     
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  8. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Member

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Can I just saying that reading the posts speculating what happened at the end are far more interesting than the actual finale?

    In some sense, I enjoyed the final episode though it angered me a bit as well. That said, there was no reasonable expectation after the episodes that preceded the finale to expect anything other than what we got. So, it is what it is. Trying to make sense of this whole third season seems pointless as it was so existential in so many aspects.
     
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  9. bopdd

    bopdd Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Well, I certainly agree with the "existential" part. In fact, I'm not sure TV can get more existential than season 3 of The Leftovers! From the sound of it I was far more engaged but I could easily see why you feel the way you do.
     
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  10. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    All significant questions were answered in Lost.
     
  11. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Member

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    I'm mellowing a bit towards the whole thing in retrospect. I enjoyed the performances and think the story was very compelling despite its weirdness. Certainly there is something to be said for watching a show that doesn't follow the conventions of episodic TV and, instead, chooses to forge its own individual creative vision. There's a lot to be said for that.
     
  12. Chris from Chicago

    Chris from Chicago Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes

    It is sort of a relief that it's over, isn't it?
     
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  13. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Member

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    I'd just say it ended at the right time and didn't adhere to the expectations of the average TV watcher. So in a sense: yes and no.
     
  14. rjp

    rjp Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    :yikes:
     
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  15. JPagan

    JPagan Generation 13

    Location:
    South Florida
    Someone explain why Unbreakable Kevin Garvey needed a pacemaker.
     
  16. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    What significant questions weren't answered? I've been having this conversation on this forum for years, and I have not been given a single significant question that hasn't been answered, but critics just keep saying the same things over and over again without backing it up.
     
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  17. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    Or why he couldn't die in Australia when he was told that he was only immortal in Miracle.
     
  18. JPagan

    JPagan Generation 13

    Location:
    South Florida
    Who told him that? Matt? Ghost Patti? I don't remember that.
     
  19. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    Yes, Matt told him that. "You can't die here."
     
  20. Veltri

    Veltri ♪♫♫♪♪♫♫♪

    Location:
    Canada
    He was never immortal. It was all just people believing things as a coping mechanism.

    I think it was made clear in the finale that there is no supernatural other than the departing.
    That was driven home by the birds flying back. People believe the birds deliver their messages, but there is an easily explained truth that is more simple and closer to home.
     
  21. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    That wasn't made clear at all. Michael watched him crawl out of the grave. John shot him in the chest. The characters didn't actually believe that the birds were delivering their messages. They knew that it was a symbolic ceremony.
     
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  22. brimuchmuze

    brimuchmuze Forum Resident

    The inventor was the 1st one who went to the other side. Pretty sure that was mentioned in a previous episode.
     
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  23. Veltri

    Veltri ♪♫♫♪♪♫♫♪

    Location:
    Canada
    A narrative of the whole season was showing a lack of supernatural. John in the business of pretending to talk to the dead. Nora outing the woman's new departed claim. God being killed. Laurie showing that Evie was in Kevin's imagination - which can then be extrapolated to anything impossible happening to Kevin. Laurie suggesting to others not to challenge delusions. And to bring it home, the bird delay at the end made us wonder, only to have them return.
     
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  24. rjp

    rjp Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    #1 - what happened.....in the writers mind, how did this show end, not in my mind, or your mind, or anyone's mind, how did the writers end the show. why such ambiguity, why not just have an ending?

    #2 - what really happened to aniie brenneman?

    #3 - where is his dad at 91 years old, and why isn''t he around.

    #4 - where is liv tyler

    #5 - what became of the guilty remnant?

    #6 - how is the world reacting to the departed now? still looking for them, not caring what happened? is the rest of the world still looking for answers?

    #7 - how many years past? and what went on during those years?

    #8 - what happened to the women who made/ran the the machine......wouldn't they be much more well known by the time this happens?

    #9 - the biggest question of all: why did the whole the whole f**king thing happen?
     
  25. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    Good points. However, John and Matt were the ones who suggested to Kevin that he was immortal. Matt wrote the Book of Kevin. They were both pushing their beliefs onto Kevin pretty strongly. Kevin didn't want anything to do with it. He attacked Matt when Matt suggested he was the second coming. If all of the supernatural events were Kevin's delusions, they were not only reinforced by Matt and John. They were introduced by Matt and John.
     
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