Tube warm up complicating my listening

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by ghost rider, Aug 19, 2017.

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  1. TheVU

    TheVU Forum Resident

    This has to be one of the more frustrating first world problems.
     
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  2. While I try and be environmentally conscious, I do leave my AVR in standby mode based on the user manual stating the power consumption is .1 W
     
  3. Postercowboy

    Postercowboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nowhereland
    In many cases, the standby power consumption is probably so low these days that it is fairly neglectable.

    Now I understand that solid state amps do not take any harm from a constant standby mode.

    How about other hardware, like Oppo players or CD players? Does a constant standby mode negatively affect their life span?
     
  4. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    I have a verbal agreement with India that when they stop using coal for 60% of their energy production I'll turn off my stereo. #doingmypart
     
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  5. Leigh

    Leigh https://orf.media

    Nope, can't say that I do. And you have a mighty fine tube amp. Assuming it's working properly I would assume it's warmed up once your bias meter stops moving. Once the meters are done with their turn-on movement, I find my tube amp is done warming up.

    I'm hugely skeptical regarding the effects of warm up on gear. Unless the manufacturer specifically mentions it - and even if they do - I doubt the sound changes noticeably after, say a minute. Now, for vintage gear that drifts out of spec as it warms up? A different story (and a case where stuff sound worse he longer it's left on). I can recall old console radios in my past that would sound worse as time went on (humming, fuzziness) that was presumably due to the effects of heat on component values that were probably pretty drifted due to age in the first place (or tubes that were an inch within their lives).

    I have a Schiit DAC that presumably sounds better when it's been on a long time, but I don't believe that either, even though the manufacturer says "leave it on" (without outright saying that it sounds better when you do this). Blah blah thermal stability blort snort. If something actually requires to be on all the time to sound good, it's fundamentally broken.

    I've found I enjoy audio a heck of a lot more now that I've decided to stop worrying about stuff like this.
     
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Stopping worrying about it is one thing. Not being able to hear warm up is, well, quite another.
     
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  7. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    I need more problems in my life that can be resolved by doing nothing for a short period of time.
     
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  8. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    When I had the Lamm L2 Reference (original model), it was (and still is, in its latest incarnation) a solid state audio path with a tube power supply on a separate chassis. Vlad recommended keeping it in what amounted to stand-by all the time, and simply replacing the tubes in the PS every year. That didn't bother me, but I didn't like having the thing plugged straight into the wall during electrical storms. (I also was a little paranoid about having a tube component on all the time, so I pulled power if we were away for any period of time). And I didn't use power conditioning with some sort of surge protection in that set up. Once it was cold, bringing back "on song" could take days. And I suspect that was the solid state part, not the tubes, since his SET amps start sounding good at about 45 minutes in and just keep improving after that for a while.
    I've changed a few things in the system, including power, after moving to Texas. Don't have the L2 line stage anymore either.
     
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  9. Postercowboy

    Postercowboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nowhereland
    I have a verbal agreement with the USA that when they find out if coal mining is a health hazard to the population, I'll turn off MY stereo. #donaldrules
     
  10. ghost rider

    ghost rider Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Bentonville AR
    Maybe this got over looked. My point was always if I have 45 min to listen it's just not worth turning it on.
     
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  11. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    I think it is a fair point, and there are times when I just don't want to go through the whole thing; a modest second system maybe the answer. The problem is, if you are like me, you want to get that to sound as good as possible, and you're back in the soup! But, I'll bet there are a million ways to do a modest system, particularly if it doesn't have to accommodate LP playback, that can give you satisfaction.
    I had an epiphany today when I was playing the big system for a visitor who came over to listen. I played a variety of things- much of what I like isn't "audiophile" quality, and there is a huge difference in SQ among the various records we played. So, that trade off is there anyway, even when you go to a lot of trouble. There's another thing also forcing me to commit to digital-- some of the records I chase are now so expensive, and have not been reissued (or reissued well) on vinyl, that I need a decent digital playback facility for the CD reissues.
     
  12. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    I read where breathing the air in Raipur, India for 24 hours is the equivalent of smoking 2-1/2 packs of cigarettes. Cough!
     
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  13. ghost rider

    ghost rider Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Bentonville AR
    While I may make an attempt to conserve half hearten it may be and support whole hardheartedly legislative advancement in conservation. What ever road we are on turning our amps on or off is not going to make any difference. Personally I'm very pessimistic. Did you know the 3rd largest emitter of co2 is the process of making concrete, indirectly that keeps me working. Everybody on Earth wants their piece of the pie and we in the US are used to eating most of it!
     
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  14. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    ...And I should add that this of course was the point of my joke, not wading into verboten political-ish discussion. Conservation is a virtue, but nobody needs to be worried about impacts of leaving their stereo on.
     
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  15. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Air travel is one of the biggest contributors for an individual, which is exactly what people do not want to hear. Most are happy to do this or that, but limiting air travel is a non starter.

    Beyond that, I suspect that simply repairing things and keeping them in service does more over time than so many other small steps.

    I think we've got to look at the bold strokes and refine from there.
     
  16. inperson

    inperson Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    Hmmm. Then I need to think about doing something with the blue power light on my amp. It's like a Blue laser bean in the dark. That has always been the main reason for turning it off.
     
  17. ghost rider

    ghost rider Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Bentonville AR
    agree
     
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  18. ghost rider

    ghost rider Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Bentonville AR
    also agree:cry:
     
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  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Piece of masking tape works.
     
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  20. inperson

    inperson Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    I looked around and found some some play-doh, stuck it in the hole :D
     
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  21. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    I may need to use this quote for my signature line.

    Also...don't you think the play doh is going to dry out and be stuck on your amp forever?
     
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  22. inperson

    inperson Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    Better check to see if it isn't a Captain Beefheart quote first :p

    It's a shallow hole, just a dab will do. I don't think it will not come out when it dries out, it's really a tiny bit. I'm surprised the light doesn't heat it up to the point of turning liquidy, but it seems fine.
     
  23. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    :agree:
     
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  24. Ephi82

    Ephi82 Still have two ears working

    Location:
    S FL
    FWIW, I have been using a 1967 Fender Pro Reverb for over 30 years. To my ears, it takes about 5 mins to warm up and sound great. If your pre amp tubes are older, it may take a little longer. I dont believe that anything beyond this warm up results in any improvement.

    By the way, I learned a very costly lesson when I didnt turn off my amp after a session in my home studio. It was behind a gobo and I didnt notice that the pilot light was still on. After two months of not using the studio I found my amp dead as a door nail. Not only did it eat up my power tubes, and some caps on the board, but it took down the amps transformer. It cost me over $700 for the repair. Lesson: DO NOT leave tube amps on when not using them. While mine did not catch fire when it went down, they can and will in a pretty spectacular way.

    I also have a nice studio mic that has a preamp tube. I turn it on, along with whatever pre amp I am using, and let them both warm up for about 10 mins before I use it. I dont notice any improvement beyond that.

    My SS audio power amp is on pretty much all day, but I cant say that I have noticed less quality when starting "cold".

    I have a theory why folks think long warm up times result in better sound for tube gear. I believe there IS an audible improvement over the first 5-10 mins. So if its much better after 10 mins, why wouldnt it be much, much better after 45?

    I also believe that the longer you are listening to your system during a listening session, the more your ears are "softening up" I think our ears roll off some of the high end frequencies and distortions that live there, the more time we listen in a session.
     
  25. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    I've been using small pieces of blu-tak stuck in there for years. Hate those bright blue lights.
     
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