Stylus Retipping Service (phono cartridge) - specialist from Russia, Moscow

Wow, Roman's pictures are getting better-and-better. And now his experience, with the great variety of cartridges he has worked on, is more impressive than ever. I am looking forward to seeing his pictures of the ones I sent him, and hearing them.

But the Denon 103D I sent him, he wrote back to me, is un-repairable, due to an open-circuit coil. So I will send him another one.

 

Thanks, Warren!
Want to let you know that I have started to work on 103M and I did the most difficult part - I removed that fat cantilever without damaging any other important parts of the cartridge. I think that I will finish to work till the end of this week. Pictures will be available of course!

 

Thanks a lot! I did my best))

 

Hi Roman,

With the Technics EPC-205C MK4 did you have to repair the suspension? (as the suspension is usually collapsed on these type of Technics). And I thought there was a problem re-tensioning the the tension cord to the back?.

 

Hello!
Yes, suspension on Technics cartridges is very common problem!
On 205C MK4 above - suspension was perfect, so I didnt touch it.
But right now I'm working on 205C MK3, 100C MK3 and 100C MK4 and suspension on this cartridges is dead, so I will put a new one.
And no problems at all with tension and re-tensioning it back!

 

I am also not thrilled with slapping a cheapo cantilever and stylus on a beautiful cartridge. Seems like a waste to me. I bought a Denon 103M from Japan, rebuilt with a Victor aluminum cantilever and conical stylus. It sounded obviously not as good as a stock 103M that I own. It looked great, but that cheap rebuild needs to be ripped out and re-done. Enter Roman and this thread, just in time.

I have exactly the other way of thinking. What about old cartridges ("oldies but goodies") that are now cheap to buy used or broken, but I know were great sounding (even by today's standards), and UPGRADE the stylus shape and cantilever material, to hear if they become even better than original?

This is what Roman is doing for me now, with two of my favorite cartridges of all time: Denon 103D and 103M. But if I ever find a used Blue Oasis, Shinon, Brier, Sleeping Beauty, Hiphonic or some other favorites, I will send those to him too.

In the meantime, once I get these two back from Roman, I will report how our experiment worked-out.

 

Roman, I have a question. What about compliance? If you change the cantilever to something totally different than original, will the cartridge's compliance still be the same as original, or change because of the new cantilever?

What internal parts determine the cartridge's compliance?

 

My semi-educated guess is that compliance is determined by the relationship of the wight of the cartridge with the cantilever. Mainly the cantilever itself, for that is precisely what flexes. So, unless the same-spec cantilever is used in re-tipping, which is unlikely, your compliance is bound to change. However, as long as it stays within the range of producing acceptable resonant frequency - you should be fine.

 

Warren:

I can tell you, at least from my experience, that your thought process is correct, at least in my experience, as I've essentially been doing what you've just described (retipping good cartridges/good generators with improved styli and cantilevers) for about 7-8 years now with excellent results.

I've done about 7 retips at this stage; the first 3 or 4 were on Denon 103R's (also did body changes on those as well with very good results), which I installed ruby cantilevers and a couple of different line contact styli on, replacing the aluminum cantilever and original conical stylus.

More recently, I've retipped a couple of Ortofon MC 20 Supers, which originally had aluminum cantilevers and pretty good line contacts (FG I believe) with both boron and sapphire cantilevers with microridge styli, the sapphire cantilever having a laser mounted microridge with no glue/bonding material (at least that I can see) which results in very low tip mass.

In both cases the cartridges were radically improved from their stock form. In the case of the Ortofon MC 20 Supers I would say that their performance is now probably up well into the upper end of the Cadenza range with a total investment which is a fraction of that price. The Denons were also very good, although you needed to do the body as well on those to really get the most out of them IMO as the plastic shell is a real limiting factor.

The stylus thing is a bit obvious but cantilever material plays a very big factor in terms of cartridge performance as well. It is a generalization and not absolutely universal, but look at the number of outstanding high end cartridges that feature aluminum cantilevers. It is not many; most are boron, sapphire or ruby.

In terms of compliance, it is the suspension which will dictate compliance; as such that is what will have to be altered to change compliance. A change of cantilever material will not change compliance in any big way. Nor will a change in stylus profile.

That is not to say that lower tracking forces cannot be achieved with a change in stylus, especially a move from a spherical/conical to a more exotic stylus profile. I was able to reduce tracking force, for example, on my 103R's from about 2.6 grams to about 2.4 grams with Peter Ledermann's standard line contact stylus and about 2.3 grams with his OCL stylus, which is a very extreme stylus profile that closely resembles the Ortofon Replicant. With a change in suspension and higher compliance (which I never did but is possible), those stylus profiles would be capable of even lower VTF with the same cartridge.

Those big round conicals require a bit more VTF (and antiskate typically for that matter) to hold them in the groove.

With the price of new cartridges, this is the only way I'll work to acquire a "new" cartridge from now on. Used body with a retip and new suspension. As a value proposition it is off the charts compared to buying new cartridges.

 

I didn't think the cantilever or stylus directly affects compliance, simply because I am SURE a diamond or ruby cantilever doesn't bend AT ALL. So, I suppose a boron or titanium doesn't bend significantly either. Maybe aluminum is less desirable because it can bend a little bit... or maybe just because in order for it NOT to bend, aluminum has to be thick and heavy?

I am guessing that compliance is dependent upon the tension wire and/or the elastomer suspension. The length of the cantilever, if not identical to the original, may also cause a change, due to the moment arm of a change in the stylus-to-suspension distance. My question is, (1) during the process of removing and replacing a cantilever/stylus assembly, does the suspension become somehow affected, and therefore the compliance?

And, there is a very common story that an old cartridge's suspension has an elastomer suspension that is dried-out and hardened. (2) What should be done about that, for a rebuild of an old cartridge?

I would like to hear more about (3) what the tension wire does, (4) what happens to it and the suspension, after a cartridge has sat around for 30 years or longer and (5) how can this be addresses in a cartridge rebuild.

 

May I suggest looking up "compliance"?

Here's a quote from Ortofon:

"When selecting either MC or MM cartridges for your record player, total mass of tonearm (including cartridge and headshell) has to be taken into account in relation to the mechanical compliance (elasticity) of the cartridge cantilever system."

And here's the source:
Resonance frequency

Compliance is the flexion/elasticity of the cantilever. Everything else is peripherals, including tension wires and suspension rubbers, or whatnot.

 

Sorry to have apparently contradicted your "semi-educated guess". I am only semi-educated guessing too, so please do not take offense. I am asking the question to people who are VERY educated, and particularly to Roman. Yes, I understand that the compliance is elasticity (like a spring) and total mass must be in the correct relationship to maintain an optimum resonance frequency. But that is not what I am asking about. I want to know what cartridge rebuilders do to make sure the compliance is not affected by the age and degradation of the cantilever's suspension.

I suspect that a diamond cantilever doesn't bend, at all. So with a diamond cantilever, the stiffness of the diamond material cannot possibly contribute to the compliance. Given this, I suspect that cantilevers in general are not supposed to bend, which is why boron and sapphire is considered better than aluminum. It must be something else that is providing the compliance, the "whatnot".

What happens to the "whatnot" with age, and what should rebuilders do about it?

 

I have heard of sapphire and ruby cantilevers, but have yet to hear of a diamond one. Can you possibly give an example of one, preferably a link?

Also, contrary to what you may believe, cantilevers are supposed to flex, to different degrees, depending on the mass of the cartridge/tonearm combination. The flexion facilitates tracking. Don't just take my word for it, look it up.

Cartridge re-builders cannot perform miracles, so, unless they use original parts, which are nowhere to be found, compliance of cartridges they work on changes, inevitably. The best they can hope for is it stays in necessary range.

Especially in Roman's case. If you read the first few pages of this post, you will learn that most of his customers in Russia nowadays ask him to re-tip better-quality carts that are worn out with cheap parts from new entry-level carts. You can bet the house compliance changes in that case. The result are mongrel carts that have bodies from respectable ones, but cantilevers/styli from bargain basement. Sort of like a Rolex from Chinatown. And it's not his fault, either, this is what they want and pay for.

 

Namiki Stylus does diamond cantilevers:

Cantilever / Adamant Co., Ltd.

I'd be tempted to try one if they became available through quality retippers at a reasonable price!

Dynavector has also done diamond cantilevers in the past, and may presently for all I know.

The cantilever itself has very little to do with compliance. You'll notice that Ortofon on their page speaks of the "cartridge cantilever system"; when they speak of this they are referring to not only the cantilever but the suspension itself which is really what is responsible for the compliance of the cartridge. The peripherals, as you call them, are actually what establishes the compliance. If you were to contact Ortofon, I am reasonably confident (I could be wrong but I don't think so) that they would tell you the same.

This is why, for example, various cartridges within certain manufacturers lines (Ortofon among them, Clearaudio being another example) which feature more exotic cantilever materials all have essentially the same compliance. Aluminum, boron, sapphire, etc. Boron, for example, is approximately 3X stiffer/more rigid than aluminum; using your logic virtually all cartridges with boron cantilevers would be extremely low compliance, which we know not to be the case.

I'm curious as to whether you have ever had a cartridge retipped? Notwithstanding Roman's work, the quality retippers such as Soundsmith or Phonocartridgeretipping.com (I've had 6 retips done by both of them-4 by Soundsmith and 2 by Andy) will tell you that unless they make significant changes to the elastomer/suspension, the compliance will remain the same. At one point Peter Ledermann was offering significantly re-worked Denon 103/103R's which offered higher compliance and allowed the cartridge to be tracked with much lower VTF (down to 1.7 according to the review below) but this was only if the suspension was heavily modified; a simple cantilever/stylus change (of which Peter has probably done hundreds, including 4 for me, changing from aluminum to ruby) without modification of the suspension would result in no significant change to compliance, at least it has not on the 4 retips he did for me and the 2 that Andy did on Ortofon MC 20 Supers (changing both of those from original aluminum cantilevers to boron and sapphire respectively). Only modification of internal damping/suspension will do that.

The Soundsmith System: Denon DL-103 and DL-103 Gold Cartridge Plus The MCP- 2 Moving Coil Phono Preamplifier Setting a new benchmark for value. Review By Ron Nagle

I think Warren would just like to know if Roman is doing any restorative suspension work (this need not be to actually change compliance-but could be I suppose-but more to just return the cartridge to its original state in terms of suspension) to ensure that cartridge, particularly if it is quite old, will perform to its full potential when it comes back from a retip.

 

The two that I have had personal experience with are Highphonic MC-D15 and Klipsch MCZ-110. But there have been others also.

Because of its hardness and stiffness, a diamond cantilever can be made VERY thin and VERY light, so is universally considered to be the best material for a cartridge cantilever, but also the most expensive. Boron and sapphire are next down the list, and ruby just under sapphire.

If you can find the old Klipsch web page about their cartridges, they explain it very clearly. They made four models of MCZ cartridge, and the only difference was the cantilever material. The compliance spec for all of their cartridges are exactly the same, despite the differences in material properties.

 

Bingo!

 

I haven't needed any re-tips yet, I have 5 carts running on 5 tables, they just don't get individually sufficient use to need re-tips any time soon. However, I was prepared for a slight change in compliance when I do my first one, on the Zu Denon-103, with a swap of cantilever for a sapphire one.

This suspension talk vis-a-vis compliance, I will not argue with it before researching it further. So far, however, it basically opens a whole new can of worms, one that isn't opened on this forum, or even on other cart-related resources too often. Most of the time people cite cantilevers when compliance is the topic.

 

I think you'll be thrilled when you make that change on your Zu 103, at least based on my experience. Below is my DIY Zu 103R with ruby cantilever and line contact stylus (done by Peter L at Soundsmith). It is a backup cartridge at this point-if I was to do something further with it I'd probably put a sapphire cantilever (preferably laser drilled) with microridge on it. I had about $675 in total in this cartridge as I recall, but it was retipped a few years ago when retipping costs were a bit less than they are now.

 

What can be done for the old styli for the GE VR 1000's where the suspension bits have hardened over the decades and do not track at all ?

 

Hello everybody!
Here is my new works....

Denon DL-103M was retipped for Warren (forum member).

Denon - DL-103M
Stylus - ATN-150MLX



Denon - DL-110
Stylus - Unknown elliptical

 

Sumiko - Blue Point Special Evo III
Stylus - Blue Point Special Evo III



Ortofon SPU - Synergy
Stylus - Synergy

 

Audio-Technica - AT-UL3
Stylus - ATN-95E



Bang & Olufsen - MMC4
Stylus - MMC4

 

More details on DL-103M