Classical Corner Classical Music Corner

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, May 29, 2015.

  1. Wes H

    Wes H Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Playing Chopin, The Four Ballades, performed by Ivan Moravec. This is a 1967 LP issued by Connoisseur Society and is one of two copies I have-- the other is in a 1966 box set of Moravec/Chopin that also includes the Preludes and Nocturnes. In this case, I don't mind having a backup copy. Connoisseur Society's recording is excellent and Moravec plumbs the full range of emotions that Chopin put into the Ballades.

    This was recorded in 1965 at the Vienna Konzerthaus on a Bösendorfer piano.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Indeed he does! After hearing 17 different recordings of the 4 Ballades, I have decided his are my second favorite. (Maria Tipo's live performance on Ermitage is my very favorite.)
     
    Wes H likes this.
  3. Scope J

    Scope J Senior Member

    Location:
    Michigan
  4. Sorcerer

    Sorcerer Senior Member

    Location:
    Netherlands
  5. bruce2

    bruce2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Connecticut, USA
    I also have this and enjoy it. What do you think of it?
     
  6. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Alfred Cortot, CD7 from the Anniversary box, Schumann Carnaval Op.9 and CD9 Ravel Sonatine/Franck Prelude Aria and Final

    [​IMG]
     
    ssstand and George P like this.
  7. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I didn't really "get" Schumann until I heard Cortot's Schumann. It's very special stuff.
     
    ssstand, RiRiIII and hvbias like this.
  8. Sorcerer

    Sorcerer Senior Member

    Location:
    Netherlands
    I got it yesterday and so far I like it.
     
  9. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    I've not heard enough of Cortot's recordings to have an opinion, but he certainly was unique; he had an intriguing and very idiosyncratic playing style. This is what critic/piano specialist Jed Distler - one of the few whose ears I trust - wrote about it:
    "Cortot’s rubato was idiosyncratic and impossible to copy, yet logical and controlled, abetted by bold melodic projection. His phrasing was full of heart-stopping tenutos, attention-grabbing accents, and dynamic nuances that propelled the music forward and up. At his best, Cortot’s tempos always struck me as natural and inevitable – never too fast or too slow."
    and
    "Cortot’s liberal attitude toward textual fidelity bordered on the cavalier. Like many pianists of his era, Cortot loved to search out inner voices (real or implied), spice up bass lines with added octaves or filled out chords, and break the hands by playing the left before the right. However anachronistic these devices might have been, Cortot channeled them toward specific coloristic and expressive ends, although they became increasingly more pronounced, defiant, and craggy as the pianist aged and his technique waned."

    A Dutch critic (born in the 1920s and familiar with older pianists and recordings), whose ears I also trust, was less positive; he emphasized the anachronistic tendencies of Cortot's style and found it hard to listen to.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  10. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    I am fairly confident Cortot would be one of those pianists I could identify blind, there is very little on this box I don't find at the least interesting to hear, ie even composers like Brahms and Haydn which are idiosyncratic performances have an alluring quality to them. Mr Distler's assessment is very good, a simpler way I have heard Cortot described is he was an old fashioned pianist, something tells me you wouldn't get a recording contract these days if you played like him :)
     
    crispi likes this.
  11. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    Here's the tracklisting of the upcoming Claudio Arrau Complete Philips (and American Decca and DG) recordings box:
    • CD 1-11 Beethoven: Klaviersonaten Nr. 1-32; Eroica-Variationen op. 35; Variationen op. 34 & WoO. 80; Rondo op. 51 Nr. 2 (analoge Aufnahmen)
      CD 12-14 Beethoven: Klavierkonzerte Nr. 1-5; Tripelkonzert op. 56 (Henryk Szeryng, Janos Starker, Concertgebouw Orchestra, Bernard Haitink)
      CD 15 & 16 Beethoven: Violinsonaten Nr. 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8
      CD 17-25 Beethoven: Klaviersonaten Nr. 1-13, 15-28, 30-32; Andante favori WoO. 57; Variationen WoO. 80 (digitale Aufnahmen)
      CD 26 Beethoven: Diabelli-Variationen op. 120
      CD 27-29 Beethoven: Klavierkonzerte Nr. 1-5 (Staatskapelle Dresden, Colin Davis)
      CD 30-36 Mozart: Klaviersonaten Nr. 1-16, 18; Rondos KV 485 & 511; Adagio KV 540; Fantasien KV 397 & 478
      CD 37-41 Schubert: Klaviersonaten D. 664, 894, 958-960; Impromptus D. 496, 899, 935; Moments musicaux D. 780
      CD 42-49 Chopin: Klavierkonzerte Nr. 1 & 2 (London Philharmonic Orchestra, Eliahu Inbal);Preludes Nr. 1-24; Balladen Nr. 1-4; Barcarolle op. 60; Fantaisie op. 49; Scherzi Nr. 1-4; Polonaise op. 61; Nocturnes Nr. 1-21; Walzer Nr. 1-19: Don Giovanni-Variationen; Fantasie über polnische Lieder; Krakowiak
      CD 50-56 Schumann: Klavierkonzert op. 54 (Boston Symphony Orchestra, Colin Davis); Abegg-Variationen op. 1; Papillons op. 2; Fantasie op. 17; Nachtstücke op. 23; Carnaval op. 9; Klaviersonaten Nr. 1 & 2; Fantasiestücke op. 12 & 111; Symphonische Etüden op. 13; Arabeske op. 18; Kinderszenen op. 15; Kreisleriana op. 16; Waldszenen op. 80; Davidbündlertänze op. 6; Blumenstück op. 19; Humoreske op. 20; Novelletten op. 21; Faschingsschwank aus Wien op. 26; 3 Romanzen op. 28
      CD 57-62 Liszt: Klavierkonzerte Nr. 1 & 2 (London Symphony Orchestra, Colin Davis); Klaviersonate h-moll; 5 Etudes de Concert; 6 Polnische Lieder von Chopin; Liebestraum As-Dur; Mephisto-Walzer Nr. 1; Etudes d'execution transcendante; Paraphrasen über Themen aus Verdi-Opern; Annees de pelerinage (Schweiz & Italien / Auszüge); Ballade Nr. 2; Benediction de Dieu dans la solitude; Funerailles; Valse oubliee Nr. 1
      CD 63-66 Brahms: Klavierkonzerte Nr. 1 & 2 (Concertgebouw Orchestra, Bernard Haitink); Balladen op. 10; Händel-Variationen op. 24; Paganini-Variationen op. 35; Klaviersonaten Nr. 2 & 3; Scherzo op. 4
      CD 67 Tschaikowsky: Klavierkonzert Nr. 1; Grieg: Klavierkonzert op. 16 (Boston Symphony Orchestra, Colin Davis)
      CD 68 Grieg: Klavierkonzert op. 16; Schumann: Klavierkonzert op. 54 (Concertgebouw Orchestra, Christoph von Dohnanyi)
      CD 69-71 Debussy: Preludes Heft 1 & 2; Images Heft 2; Suite bergamasque
      CD 72-73 Bach: Partiten BWV 825-827, 829
      CD 74 Beethoven: Klaviersonate Nr. 23; Liszt: Ballade Nr. 2; Chopin: Scherzo Nr. 1
      CD 75 Beethoven: Diabelli-Variationen op. 34; Eroica-Variationen op. 35
      CD 76 Beethoven: Klaviersonaten Nr. 8 & 29
      CD 77 Beethoven: Klaviersonaten Nr. 14, 23, 26
      CD 78 Chopin: Scherzi Nr. 1-4; Balladen Nr. 1-4
      CD 79 Chopin: Impromptus; Barcarolle op. 60; Balakireff: Islamey; Claudio Arrau im Interview
      CD 80 Beethoven: Klavierkonzert Nr. 4; Leonore-Ouvertüre Nr. 3 (Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks, Leonard Bernstein) (DG)

    • Artists: Claudio Arrau, Henryk Szeryng, Janos Starker, Concertgebouw Orchestra, Staatskapelle Dresden, London Philharmonic Orchestra, Boston Symphony Orchestra, Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks, Bernard Haitink, Eliahu Inbal, Colin Davis, Leonard Bernstein
    • Label: Decca, ADD/DDD
    • Order number: 8021455
    • Release date: 2.3.2018
    [​IMG]
     
    hvbias, RiRiIII and Wes H like this.
  12. andolink

    andolink Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Frank Bridge: Enter Spring

    [​IMG]
     
  13. The Absent-Minded Flaneur

    The Absent-Minded Flaneur Forum Resident

    Location:
    The EU
    Turned on the car radio this morning and caught John Eliot Gardiner's glorious arrangement of Brahms' Geistliches Lied. Perfect music for driving up and down the Dorset hills in the frosty December sun.

     
    George P likes this.
  14. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    In anticipation of the big Arrau box I was curious how the newer masterings would sound. The mastering comparison is from the older complete Beethoven box by Philips with the gold foil text and the newer set under Decca with the grey/silver box. IMO unless I was going back and forth rapidly the differences aren't major. These are level matched with ReplayGain.

    Here is the first minute and a half from the Hammerklavier:
    MEGA
     
  15. ubertrout

    ubertrout Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Listened to a live version of the Farandole from L'Arlesienne #2 today; Jean Martinon and the Chicago Symphony from the 1960s, from the long-OOP "From the Archive" set of Martinon's live recordings put out by the CSO a few years back. Crazily intense with intense dynamic contrasts. The CSO at the end is playing almost unbelievably fast yet staying on track.

    By the way, the CSO is blowing out its last remaining copies of a few of the "From the Archives" discs for $10 each - the Barenboim, Levine, and CSO Chorus 50th Anniversary Editions. These originally sold for $35 direct from the CSO and were never sold elsewhere. The "Collector's Choice" boxset is also still being sold for $90 until it sells out: The Symphony Store Chicago

    A few reviews of the Collector's Choice set:
    https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-4459/
    Classical Net Review - Maestrino - Chicago Symphony - Collector's Choice
    CSO in the 20th Century : Classical CD Reviews- September 2000 Music on the Web(UK)
     
  16. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    From what I gather, Universal doesn’t do new mastering unless there is unreleased material. All Philips, Decca and DG mega boxes I own are compiled from previous masterings that had already appeared on CD. If you see a credit for mastering in the booklet, that is misleading, as it actually only applies to the previously unreleased tracks, but not the entire box.
     
    George P likes this.
  17. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    What I mean is I anticipate UMG using the newer mastering instead of the mastering from the old box set. In that regard I was wondering how these newer masterings were going to sound.I did not look up if Arrau has had much of his catalog remastered in the 2000s like they did for the Beethoven set.

    If you mean the masterings on the ones I linked are the same, I don't think they are, if you have a listen to them I'd be interested in hearing what you think.
     
    crispi likes this.
  18. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    My apologies. I understand now. I’ll listen to the samples when I’m back home.

    I assume they’ll use newer masterings when available and the older ones for the ones that had not been remastered. Some Arrau discs appeared in the Philips 50 series and in the Originals series.
     
    hvbias likes this.
  19. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    No problem.

    I didn't want to influence anyone's opinion of what I thought, so I'll post it in spoilers, anyone reading this that wants to do the comparison should read my spoilers afterward :)

    I think the older set does sound slightly better when both are played at the same volume, there is a bit more richness to the bottom end. The newer set does have its average volume raised, but I do not hear any compression. I find I want to listen to the newer mastering louder to bring out a bit more body of the piano. Probably safe to say that overall I have a slight preference for the older box.
     
  20. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I don't have the ability to compare digital files anymore, but I will say that I compared at least three different masterings of the Arrau Chopin Nocturnes a few years back and found there to be only small differences between them.
     
    crispi likes this.
  21. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    I don't remember if you were responsible, but someone here tipped me (and the rest of us) off about that "Collector's Choice" set some months back, and, grateful, I sprung on it at once. I remain grateful--it's a great collection. That Stokowski run through Beethoven's 2d Sym., to me not normally one of that composer's more arresting works, is alone worth the price of the set. The Stock b'cast is of undoubted historical significance and casts a light on the man's integral role in Chicago's musical life, although as a performance (as you'd expect, given the forces involved) it's something of a mess. And on and on. Incidentally, for those who already have it, one of the linked reviews offers conflicting views about the Ferencsik Beethoven 7th sym. If you fall in the "pro" camp, be aware that ages ago the now-defunct LaserLight label issued an entire cycle of the Beethoven syms. under that conductor, drawn I think from Hungaroton, and they can be had today for peanuts, maybe a couple of bucks per disc from the various Amazon marketplace sellers dealing in used CDs. Warning: if pursuing, make sure the seller warrants playability; I had one from the set that became unplayable over time, whether from bronzing or mishap I don't know.
     
    ubertrout and Wes H like this.
  22. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    For what it's worth, there is an even earlier Philips mastering of those Arrau performances, but I don't like the sound as much as the mastering in this set:

    [​IMG]

    I saved this helpful post about Arrau's Beethoven from rmcr by Tom Deacon, who was involved in the production of the above box set:

    People seeking the EMI Arrau Beethoven recordings will find 9 of the of them in the ICON set, but the OOP 5 CD EMI set mentioned above (and pictured below) has one or two the ICON doesn't have, so both are necessary.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  23. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    Great post you quote there, thank you!
     
    George P likes this.
  24. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    This is the "older box" I was referring to in my post and where one of the samples came from and it does sound great. It has "1998 Philips Classics a division of Philips Music Group, a Polygram company" on the back of the box.
     
  25. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Now playing one of my favorite versions of Fantasy in C, Sergio Fiorentino. Very romantic and sentimental.

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page

molar-endocrine