Stones v. Beatles breakup?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by doc021, Sep 2, 2016.

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  1. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

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    I think there still would have been rock bands without the existence of the Beatles.
     
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  2. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

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    The Yardbirds and Pretty Things were big influences on the garage scene as well. The Stones "bad boy" image was as well.
     
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  3. muffmasterh

    muffmasterh Forum Resident

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    yes but more likely the kind of Rock n Roll bands we had between 62-4 ....
     
  4. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

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    Maybe or maybe not. Eventually bands would start writing their own songs. Surf music might have still been popular in the U.S. for a while longer.
     
  5. muffmasterh

    muffmasterh Forum Resident

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    thats a tough call, in a way Floyd play the part of the Beatles and Zep the Stones in that the Floyd are more innovative and Zep are harder and stay closer to their blues roots but there is a lot to Zep that make them nearer to floyd on the scale than the Stones are to the Beatles
     
  6. dave9199

    dave9199 Forum Resident

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    I think of The Who & The Kinks as arty bands in their 60's music. The Stones never were that. While The Kinks & The Who maintained artiness into the early 70's, everyone, including The solo Beatles, became rock bands/artists. Townshend & Davies did concept albums but I never felt Davies were that good. Meanwhile The Stones just kept on truckin' with what they did and did it really well while still trying to adopt other musics into their own as the 70's wore on. I would say The Kinks became a straight rock band after their concept period that had the light and shade of The Who but I still don't like their stuff as much during that period either. I think The Kinks had some great songs but not albums. The Who followed after Quadrophenia for me.
     
  7. muffmasterh

    muffmasterh Forum Resident

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    yes possibly but also possibly not - we can never know either way but we would need another Beatles for the former and its hard to see who that might have been, & it was the arrival of the Beatles that made anybody who wanted to be regarded as a serious artist need to have to write their own songs, although we must not forget Dylan's lyrical influence either, however as he had stated himself it was the Beatles who made him want to go electric.

    And i like surf music, just not sure i could handle a decade of it, but then no Meet the Beatles & Rubber Soul no Pet Sounds, although Sgt Pepper did make Brian Wilson take to his bed for five years cos he felt he just couldn't compete with it.

    I think the point i am making is that people can dislike the Beatles, thats totally fair and a personal choice, but in doing so they are often ignorant of the fact that a lot of the music they do like may never have existed - or at least not in the same format - without the Beatles.
     
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  8. muffmasterh

    muffmasterh Forum Resident

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    Lets be honest the Kinks were as good as done after 1970 and the Who after 1973 ( Townsend was self admittedly shot ), the Stones would have been too save for Some Girls ( and a couple of other later good but lesser albums ) but all those groups best days were behind them after 1971 although i'd take Some Girls before Exile any day
    :hide:

    and of course the Beatles were over by 1970 so all these bands were either dead or reduced to Zombie acts at around the same time the early 70's. Slightly unfair on the Stones maybe as they did like i say issue a couple of good albums in the late 70's early 80's but they never got anywhere near their peak of 68-71 again
     
  9. The US scene was strong but very very regional '60-'64, so for every teen idol or Beach Boy that made it nationally there were hundreds of local artists from the Northwest, New Orleans, Memphis, Houston, Detroit, Phila, that just stayed where they were. We need a more nuanced history of the post 55 pre Beatles that shows the vibrancy that was, but also reflects the whitewashed backlash/ censorship that happened after 55, that only allowed safe acts like The Beach Boys, Four Seasons, Fabian, etc., to flourish.
     
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  10. TheDailyBuzzherd

    TheDailyBuzzherd Forum Resident

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    Without reading the entire thread, I know this has been posted:

    The Stones broke up first in June 1969.
    That band regrouped with a new guitarist.
     
  11. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

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    However, quite a few of the British groups including the Stones were influenced by American blues artists who were already writing their own songs and playing electric instruments before the Beatles. Psychedelic music might not have happened without the Beatles but I think blues/rock groups would have eventually happened with or without the Beatles.
     
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  12. Olompali

    Olompali Forum Resident

    The Beatles and Brits kicked open the door to "bring it all back home'' and this pumps r'n r into Lord Bob's soul which shows the beatniks and folkies that electric music groups ain't such a bad way to go after all.
    The Warlocks and Airplane in SF 1965 were dropping psychs and playing to early freaks, writers and artists 'round when the Stones released Satisfaction and the Beatles were filming HELP!
    It's the zeitgeist and gestalt.
    Grok?
     
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  13. muffmasterh

    muffmasterh Forum Resident

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    again possibly, we will never know for sure either way, the R&B artists were indeed either writing their own stuff or re-doing older delta blues stuff and the Stones were a covers band of these artists as were many others like the Yardbirds for example. but as i said before it was the Beatles who made it a must for serious artists to write their own material and make that material their staple product, they then would live or die on their own songwriting talent. Would that have happened anyway ? maybe for some, maybe not for others, we'll never know.

    Psychedelia was another game changer, yes ultimately a blind alley but during its short " flowering " it took popular music to new unforseen levels, however i share your distaste for some of what prog rock became during the 70's. Self indulgent and overblown.
     
  14. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

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    And the 13th Floor Elevators were doing their thing in Texas. However, I was thinking more of British pop-psych as opposed to American psych.
     
  15. muffmasterh

    muffmasterh Forum Resident

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    Yes the Beatles never invented psychedelia, but they took ( dropped ) the acid ball and ran with it, and with their profile in embracing it was the catalyst or the petrie dish that allowed the Airplane the Velvets et all to florish, although we should never forget that Surrealistic pillow sounds closer to the Mamas than the Papas than Tomorrow Never knows imho ( doesn't mean its not a great record though )
     
  16. Olompali

    Olompali Forum Resident

    Doesn't hurt to be the multi million pound success story of the century at the epicenter of the London art scene to get one's new found ideas across.
    No sleight to Lennon's genius intended.
     
  17. Olompali

    Olompali Forum Resident

    Of course, after Kesey's magical mystery bus took a detour through to Larry McMurtry's (Lonesome Dove) in TX in late 1964
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  18. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    Say what? If you had said the Velvet Underground, this Kinks and Who fan might have believed you. The Warhol dandies maintain their allure with college kids to this day, but I wish they were as interested in Ray Davies' nostalgia as Lou Reed's decadence.
     
  19. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    FANTASTIC post!!!
    Beave
     
  20. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Very true points, but also illuminates the REAL difference between Lennon and Mick;
    Mick has always had Class.
    Lennon had none, just his snarky 'wit', if you even want to call it that for a man who reveled in making fun of people who were Crippled or Mentally handicapped.
    Some tough guy indeed.
    Beave
     
  21. The Doctor

    The Doctor Forum Resident

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    You Can't Always Get What You Want? Child of the Moon? Lady Jane? I Am Waiting? She's A Rainbow? Ruby Tuesday? 2000 Light Years from Home? We Love You? No Expectations? Dandelion? Moonlight Mile? Angie? None of these are blues rock, and you're not going to say they're art or ambitious?
     
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  22. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

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    The Stones could survive the loss of the Keith, unfortunately, since there's still two Stones guitarists alive - Mick (Taylor) and Ronnie. They could still tour with the re-addition of Mick Taylor. Bring back Bill and it would be Stones dujour even without Keith. I would fear the loss of Jagger or Watts much more. I never thought Richards would be on the expendable Stones list, but he is; as much as Brian was, Keith now is.
     
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  23. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Excellent post!
    Beave
     
  24. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

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    I was referring to the concept of an album as a “work of art”. And I meant post-Beggars
     
  25. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

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    That band is still alive, even if Taylor and Wyman quit long ago.

    If Ronnie goes first, they should 'get the band back together'.
     
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