What does Steve Hoffman think of the new Beatles Sgt. Pepper remix?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by NGeorge, May 31, 2017.

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  1. bherbert

    bherbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Africa
    “Your drums sound louder than ever on the new Sgt. Pepper box set.” - Rolling Stone Magazine
    “They are! Giles [Martin, son of George Martin] has turned me up. I love it! We couldn't do that in the Sixties. If anything, when we were mastering, we were taking off the bottom all the time, and the bottom was my bass drum. You should go to the Love show [in Las Vegas]. It's like drum boogie. It's so far-out.” - Ringo Starr

    Ringo Starr on New LP, Future Deluxe Beatles Albums, McCartney

    Sounds like Ringo digs the loudness :)
     
  2. bherbert

    bherbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Africa
    What role did you take in putting together the Sgt. Pepper set?
    Giles remastered it, they sent it to me, and I said I loved it. There's another bonus CD with different bits – the big piano that we all played for that one chord [on "A Day in the Life"]. That is so interesting, even for me, who's on the damn thing. I just love it. It’s a bit like the Eight Days a Week[documentary] that Ron Howard did. I was so moved emotionally by looking at that, and I'm in it, for God's sake.

    Ringo Starr on New LP, Future Deluxe Beatles Albums, McCartney
     
    Quatermass likes this.
  3. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    Ringo has a product to sell.

    If his drums are louder, I would imagine he would like that...yes.

    Just like...if Paul's bass was featured more...and if it even dominated other instruments in the mix...Paul may not be especially displeased.

    They could have turned up Ringo's drums in the Sixties.

    But there were artistic decisions made at the time that have stood the test of time.

    Listening to the White Album, Ringo has plenty of loud drums.

    "But we couldn't do that in the Sixties!"
     
    Joy-of-radio likes this.
  4. Quatermass

    Quatermass Member

    Location:
    London
    350 million big ones in the bank and a knighthood, I am pretty sure he can give an honest opinion of a product he was involved in.
     
  5. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    You always want more. Or some people do.

    This is not a putdown.

    And I'm not just talking about money.

    I did add that I wasn't surprised if he was glad his drums were louder.

    bherbert said:
    “Your drums sound louder than ever on the new Sgt. Pepper box set.” - Rolling Stone Magazine
    “They are! Giles [Martin, son of George Martin] has turned me up. I love it! We couldn't do that in the Sixties. If anything, when we were mastering, we were taking off the bottom all the time, and the bottom was my bass drum. You should go to the Love show [in Las Vegas]. It's like drum boogie. It's so far-out.” - Ringo Starr

    Ringo Starr on New LP, Future Deluxe Beatles Albums, McCartney

    Sounds like Ringo digs the loudness :)
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    "Ringo has a product to sell.

    If his drums are louder, I would imagine he would like that...yes.

    Just like...if Paul's bass was featured more...and if it even dominated other instruments in the mix...Paul may not be especially displeased.

    They could have turned up Ringo's drums in the Sixties.

    But there were artistic decisions made at the time that have stood the test of time.

    Listening to the White Album, Ringo has plenty of loud drums.

    "But we couldn't do that in the Sixties!"
     
    Joy-of-radio likes this.
  6. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    Of course, aging rock stars often don't have the best hearing, so it's not entirely surprising that Ringo and Paul would be happy to hear their parts cranked up.
     
    Joy-of-radio, formu_la and DRM like this.
  7. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    I just can't relate to that.

    What did you say again?

    Could you repeat that, please?
     
  8. Ephi82

    Ephi82 Still have two ears working

    Location:
    S FL
    Age happens to be coincidental here. It's how you initially listed and experienced music.

    I am 59, and my kids are 25-29. They were focused initially on Rap, where its all about the loud, loud bottom and being in your face, by design.

    They also like a lot of the music released after 2000, which following Rap, is also loud, loud loud. At the same time, music equipment became ultra portable, and the music itself ultra inexpensive through lossy downloads. The equipment and the music itself couldnt reproduce the subtleties of a wide dynamic range. What sold was price, portability and a loud in your face mix to cut through all the noise of the world as you walked on with ear buds in your ears. DR doesnt sell under these conditions.

    It has been encouraging that my youngest son really loves 70's rock music and he does enjoy a listening session in my room. I've shown him the advantages to recording with a wider DR, and he is sold on it. As the same time, he's just not going to build himself up a $15k listening system/room like I have. He and his friends have a tougher go financially than my generation did (not that mine was easy), and an I phone, ear buds, downloads and YouTube/Spotify sounds just fine for the $.
     
  9. leeroy jenkins

    leeroy jenkins Forum Resident

    Location:
    The United States
    The important thing is that I think it sounds fantastic. It's interesting to hear others opinions, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks.

    I hope Giles continues to remix them. I'll continue to purchase and enjoy them.
     
    Crimson Witch and Ephi82 like this.
  10. Ephi82

    Ephi82 Still have two ears working

    Location:
    S FL
    You just dont get it. It appears that you dont understand how the limitations of analog recording impacted the sonics.

    Compared to today, it was very difficult to give drums and bass a lot visibility in the mix because you DID have to roll off low freq. for vinyl cutting. In addition, drums and bass, occupying the mid low and low end, really got muddy when the recordings went through several generations of tape reductions. The more instrumets in the mix, the harder it was to get bass and drums to stand out.

    I agree that the new Pepper mix has the drums and bass significantly louder, but why is this a problem other than it being different from the '67 mix?
     
    perplexed and leeroy jenkins like this.
  11. Gaslight

    Gaslight ⎧⚍⎫⚑

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    (in bold) dumping remastered CD's due to low DR and going back their 80's counterparts is a common theme on this very forum.

    I didn't even know what a Target CD was until I lurked here. Thought everyone meant the retail store.
     
  12. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    It isn't necessarily, it all depends on personal preference. I liked the fact that the bass was more prominent on '09 remasters personally, though others felt that they went too far.
     
  13. Gaslight

    Gaslight ⎧⚍⎫⚑

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    It's still a niche audience however (audiophiles). It's not your general music buyer.

    As for respecting the audiophiles music requirements? Sure, I'd be up for that...I prefer better DR myself and it's why I buy vinyl to begin with. Not that vinyl is "better", only that it's less likely to be smashed than a modern CD.

    Exactly how I feel about this remix LP btw.
     
    thrivingonariff likes this.
  14. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    There was a point in the late 90s and early 00s when this became the dominant trend for remastering, though it was never universal. Since that time, I think that things have generally improved with regards to remasters of classic recordings, but things have arguably gotten worse with new releases.
     
    Gila likes this.
  15. thrivingonariff

    thrivingonariff Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I agree that how a listener experiences music in their early years influences their perceptions and tastes, but I don't believe that age is simply coincidental in this matter. My tastes in rock and pop were formed beginning the early 60s, and like many others my age, I wasn't listening to music with a wide DR or the kind equipment that would favor it, but I do favor good DR now. I think learning and life experience, which (may) come with age, make a difference, in this area as in others.
     
    bobcat likes this.
  16. Gaslight

    Gaslight ⎧⚍⎫⚑

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Similar situation. My kids couldn't care less about dynamic range, but neither does my wife and I know my parents don't either.

    Honestly, they all think I'm a little nuts.
     
  17. Gila

    Gila Forum Resident

    Not entirely "artistic" decisions, they also had to deal with technical limitations. In a lot of cases the drums were lumped together with other instruments either after the first "bounce down" from four separate tracks to one or just recorded like that, so they were quite limited in what they could do in ways of treatment of instruments in these situations. And they sometimes did a second "bounce down" too, which sometimes could result in particular instrument to be almost buried in the mix (guitar in Good Morning for example, especially mono mix).

    Besides, almost everybody who have been working with recording in those days including Emerick said that the bass had to be rolled off, or the needle would jump and skip. Speaking of which...

    I remember the staff who did the 2009 said they did not boost the bass, but rather didn't roll it off. I am not sure how true is this, perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle?

    As for Paul and Ringo saying that "it sounds great", of course they are going to say that. They said that about Let it Be... Naked, and that release is criticized for compression and noise reduction. I am sure Paul didn't say that his albums Chaos & Creation and Memory Almost Full sounded crappy when they were released. In fact, did anyone ever really said something like "this new album/new reissue of ours sounds awful, don't buy it"?
     
  18. Gaslight

    Gaslight ⎧⚍⎫⚑

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    I don't know about the latter, but it does seem that the former may be true.

    And I don't just mean this thread.
     
  19. bobcat

    bobcat Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    I agree with this.

    I think you "learn" why a wide DR is important.

    When I first heard DCC CDs, for example, I liked what I heard and, after I found this forum, I learned that DR was part of the equation that made them sound so good.
     
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  20. Crimson Witch

    Crimson Witch Roll across the floor thru the hole & out the door

    Location:
    Lower Michigan





    I only meant that it makes no difference in terms of the point I was making, which is, expert analysis and outside opinion notwithstanding, ultimately it is only what sounds good to the listener that matters. Of course I respect and regard the opinion of our host, among others; I don't necessarily always share those preferences.
    As for the Pepper '17 remix, I personally find it to be inferior to the original mono mix prepared by artists whose album it is.
    I also happen to find the 1967 stereo mix to be inferior to the original mono.
    It would be rather pointless for me to judge and compare the '67 and 2017 stereo mixes, whether it be the 1987 or 2009 remastered version (of the former), as I will not be listening to any stereo version of Sgt. Pepper ! I only obtained it to see if I would like it better than the mono version. I do not.
     
  21. bobcat

    bobcat Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Which mono version do you prefer? The 2009 or the 2017?
     
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  22. Crimson Witch

    Crimson Witch Roll across the floor thru the hole & out the door

    Location:
    Lower Michigan
    I haven't heard the 2017 mono; I assume you're referring to the CD that's included in the Super Deluxe (or whatever its called) box of Pepper 50. I had just assumed that it was just a reissue of the 2009 mono remaster, which is my current CD preference. If there is a difference between the 2017 mono and the 2009 mono, then, by golly ~ I'll be opening my wallet yet again !
    :doh:
     
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  23. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa I'm an ear sitting in the sky

    Location:
    USA
    For the love of God will a gort please shut this thread down?
     
  24. bobcat

    bobcat Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    I don't mean to make you spend money, possibly unnecessarily...:)

    I'm more of a stereo man myself so I don't have the 2009 mono box but I have seen some here say that the 2009 and 2017 (yes, the one in the Pepper 50th box) masterings are different from each other.

    Others here with a lot more knowledge of the mono versions will be able to confirm or deny....
     
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  25. bobcat

    bobcat Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    If you don't like it why don't you just ignore it?

    Do I come and bother you in threads you post to?....:)
     
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