Outlaw RR2160 thread.*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by BDC, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. MasterPo

    MasterPo Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    My B-Stock just arrived. It looks like it was probably a customer return, as the banana plug covers were missing on the A-speaker posts. Saved me from having to dig them out with my fingernails, so I'm not too broken up about it. Other than that, and the fact you could tell the packaging had been previously opened and re-taped, it looks like new. I never really thought much of the design, but it's less offensive looking in person than in photos. I haven't had a lot of time to play with it yet, but so far it sounds great. Definitely glad I pulled the trigger.

    One strange thing that happened - I have a APC UPS that I use for my gear. When I initially plugged it in, I used one of the battery protected outlets, and when turning it on, the UPS and the Receiver started clicking. Like the UPS would click every couple of seconds, and the same pattern was occurring on the receiver, but it was a buzz instead of a click. I quickly powered it down and unplugged it and tried a surge protected, but not battery protected outlet on the UPS and it works fine. Anyone know what might be the issue there? Could it be some issue with the power supply on the receiver I should be worried about, or is likely something with the UPS?
     
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  2. Hymie the Robot

    Hymie the Robot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Drawing too much power for the battery is the obvious suggestion.
     
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  3. Esquared1

    Esquared1 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Barrington, IL
    Hello all,

    I'm new here and I feel like I owe it to the community to report my experience with the RR2160. Reading this forum ultimately sealed my decision. So here we go:

    Background: Inspired by my college radio DJing days (folk, blues, jazz), I decided to do this vinyl record thing as a hobby. For Christmas I picked up an Audio Technica LP60 and powered bookcase and subwoofer speakers to get started. I very quickly decided to go in with both feet and get "real" speakers and a stereo receiver.

    Basically, the wife and I sit in the basement and spin records. From a scale to 1 -10, my audiophile ears are a "7" and my wife's is a "3".

    In my first local stop, I experienced Dynaudio Excite speakers with a $4k amp. Of course, that sounded ridiculously awesome. But he pushed a Yamaha Receiver (MSRP $795) and Emit 30 speakers for a total of $2800. I really wanted to stay in the $1,500-$2000 area.

    The second stop pushed ELAC UF5s and Paradigm (a bit more in price) and that same Yamaha receiver. So I was pretty sold on this Yamaha receiver

    The main gripe out there is that Yamaha receiver plays a bit bright. I'm a fan of neutral as possible. Then I came upon this thread and I reconsidered.

    I went with the ELAC UF5s (with a bit of a discount) but decided on a B-Stock RR2160. The salesperson let me borrow a Yamaha R-S500 (MSPR around $500) with the message "Heck, you might find this Yamaha drives the speakers just as well and sounds just as good, and I'll save you $300"

    Heck, that is being a good salesperson. But after firing up my B-Stock last night (and by the way, showed no scratches/damage/use), everything sounds great. Was it exactly like the $6k Dynaudio/$4k amp. No, but probably 85% as good. At a total price of $1,650, I'm super happy. I'd expect the $795 Yamaha amp/Dynaudio Emit 30s to be 85% as good, and that is a solid grand more.

    By the way, the Outlaw drives the speakers tons better than either Yamaha receiver.

    When I played Bob Dylan "Blonde on Blonde", my wife instantly said, "Wow, that sounds different". And she doesn't have an ear for this stuff. The harmonica throughout was so much less shrill with the Outlaw. I was picked up aspects I've never heard. I don't remember the song, but there is a subtle acoustic rhythm guitar. A subtle ride(?) cymbal was clear. There was texture in Dylan's voice I never caught before in "Stuck in Mobile". Sonny Rollins' tenor sax in "Sax Colossus" was tons more neutral as well.

    Since my audiophile ear is a "7", I wish I could give a better description of the differences, but all I know is that I probably saved $1k going this route and it has a lot to do with the RR2160.

    So in closing, I thank all the posters above for sharing their stories. I was super nervous to buy online, but especially a B-Stock online product. I couldn't be happier - and I haven't even hooked up the TV or Internet Radio yet.

    Eric
     
  4. TheSeldomSeenKid

    TheSeldomSeenKid Forum Resident

    I was planning to buy an AV Surround Sound Receiver/Amp to be able to play 5.1 Discs, but after the great reviews of the Outlaw 2160 on a few Stereo Websites and SHF Members, who bought it, I changed my mind and going to buy the Outlaw 2160 later this Spring despite only being 2 Channel option. That is why I posted my Pink Floyd-Wish You Were Here SACD for sale yesterday in the Classifieds here before listing it in Discogs next week, since getting the Outlaw 2160 will not allow me to benefit the 5.1 Surround Sound, but for $830(New), the Outlaw 2160 is a great value from what I read compare to Receiver/Amps costing $1,600-$2,400. Maybe even a better value for you getting an open box one at a lower price but is as good as New. Congrats!
     
  5. Synthfreek

    Synthfreek I’m a ray of sunshine & bastion of positivity

    Did I skip over or miss you upgrading the turntable as well?

    Also Eric
     
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  6. BDC

    BDC Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    I was thinking hard on a Yamaha integrated for around the same price as the 2160, but it wouldn't have bass management and I bet the phono stage wouldn't be near as good as the Outlaw. Congrats on your new score.
    How do you like the sound of the LP60...Sounds like you have TT experience. I kind of wonder how good the cheap tables sound these days. I'm using an old Pioneer pl400, but wanting to get a technics 1200mk2, but not liking the idea of having one shipped.

    As for 5.1, a guy talks about doing here in this thread, using a second 2 channel amp. I tend to like the idea of doing it that way a lot.
     
  7. Esquared1

    Esquared1 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Barrington, IL
    I like the LP60 because I've only heard the LP60. At some point, I'll upgrade that. If internet reviews are to be believed, that is the "best" budget option. But a secondary knock on the Yamaha is that the phono stage wasn't super good. Per the Outlaw rep I talked to (at length answering all my stupid questions), he claimed the Outlaw was pretty good. FWTW.
     
  8. BDC

    BDC Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    I think everybody in this thread can vouch for the Outlaw 2160 phono stage... It went a massive way toward revitalizing my interest in vinyl. Since getting the Outlaw I've bought about 10 records, all used and decent prices. I'm going through my old collection and weeding out the ones that are destroyed (a small few) and putting 3 mil plastic covers on all the cardboard sleeves. Probably will in time replace all the inner sleeves too. Also have 2 spare headshells with Stylus's on them ready to go.

    I kind of thought with your college DJ experience you might have some TT opinions.
     
  9. Esquared1

    Esquared1 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Barrington, IL
    Ha! My college DJ days were 25 years ago. I didn’t appreciate what I had back then.
     
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  10. RND4mGuy

    RND4mGuy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    For the rr2160 owners: What other receivers/integrateds did you cross shop before buying the Outlaw? What solidified your decision to get the Outlaw instead of the others. I'm looking at the Yamaha A-S801, R-N803, and the Marantz PM8005.

    I'll be using it with standmount bookshelves and a subwoofer in a dedicated 2-channel room roughly 11 x 12 x 9 foot ceiling.
     
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  11. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    The reviews are stellar, it's a class A/B amp as opposed to D which tends to be the rule in this price range, tons of features, and respected by veteran audiophile equipment reviewers and publications.

    I'm considering it while waiting to have enough to eventually upgrade to a Class A amp from (probably) Line Magnetic. I currently have an Arcam AVR350 which sounds great but I'm betting the Outlaw would probably exceed it. Sure wish there was a dealer around here that had one for me to put it through its paces. :)
     
  12. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    The analog bass-management (with full high/low pass) was big to me as I like subs. I also like the EQ abilities, good phono and DAC stages, and loads of class A/B power. It was between this and an Audio Note Ongaku, and since I wouldn't be able to afford the latter if I saved for multiple lifetimes, I went with the Outlaw.
     
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  13. Nonpoint

    Nonpoint Forum Resident

    Location:
    Raleigh
    I tested out quite a few in this range and slightly above: - A-S801 , RR-2150, R-N803, Marantz hd-amp1, peachtree 150, parasound halo, and rotel 1590. I think the Outlaw offers the best combination of features and SQ in one package for the price. To Jack's note above, bass mgt was big for me as well. I currently run two subs and love the results via the usb input. However, depending on what features you need (e.g., do you need bass mgt?) there are plenty of good sounding options out there (I like the 801 and would prefer it if the bass mgt wasn't so limited). My complaints about the 2160 are mainly due to features: no remote app, limited (no wifi) network integration, usb dac/smart phone integration, and set cross over points (can't fine tune, e.g., the Parasound Halo) but for $800 nothing really comes close that I have personally owned/tested.

    Some top of mind options to consider instead of the 2160.....

    For ~$50 less you can get the R-N803 with more features (most notably: room eq and a customizable app, and a nice dac) but build looks pretty cheap, something you would find on a $4-500 onkyo avr and no usb input (which I care about).

    For ~$300 more get the refurb 2150 and pair it with a dac/streamer - e.g., Bluesound Node. I love this combo, given the stronger than expected onboard dac and great Bluesound OS streaming experience with the node. The 2150 to me is still a great option for an integrated if you have a great dac/source to use with it as the onboard usb one is antiquated.
     
  14. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Purely on a SQ basis, how would you rate them, in order of best to worst, regardless of pricing or features?
     
  15. Nonpoint

    Nonpoint Forum Resident

    Location:
    Raleigh
    Great question - that is a tough one. I think some units have certain strengths and handle different sources better than others. However, if I had to choose one, it would be the Parasound for maximum SQ. Outside of not offering room EQ for tough listening conditions and maybe the headphone amp could use a bit more power, I believe the Halo provides little to no compromise in building the best sounding system out of the options I have tested.
     
  16. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    So Halo, 801, RR2160,...?
     
  17. Nonpoint

    Nonpoint Forum Resident

    Location:
    Raleigh
    If I had to choose an order just based on sound with no odd listening room conditions (which may not be possible for most):

    Bookshelves and subs:
    Halo > RR2160 >Peachtree 150 = Rotel 1592 > R-N803 > Marantz Amp1

    Floorstanders:
    Peachtree = Rotel 1592 > Halo > RR2160 = 801 > R-N803 > Marantz Amp1

    With that said, the differences to me are not massive (i know that is sacrilege given the pedigree and $$ of some of these brands) and I wasn't able to test the Outlaw against all the above, especially blind and level matched to definitively say which one sounds the best.

     
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  18. BDC

    BDC Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    You have the 2160 here against some stuff that's a lot more expensive in most cases here. When you say not massive differences, IMO that bodes well for the Outlaw. My other choice before getting my 2160 was the 801, interesting you had the chance to compare. I figured the 801 was good, but I figured the Outlaw would have a better phono stage, and wanted bass management. Did you ever try the 801 phono stage?
     
  19. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    Not too surprising among modern, well-engineered solid-state amps. I would expect a nudge of the treble or bass knob to be far more audible than any intrinsic differences.
     
  20. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Looks like you forgot to add the 801 in the Bookshelves & subs category. That's the one I'm most curious about when comparing it directly to the Outlaw in terms of pure SQ.
     
  21. gwompek

    gwompek Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Hello all. I'm a new member but have been following this thread for a while. I am also interested in the RR2160 vs Yamaha A-S801 comparison. I've been ordered by my wife to consolidate my current setup (Marantz PM 7001, Hagerman Bugle Phono stage v1, Topping D30 DAC) into a single device. My other components are Monitor Audio Bronze 6 Speakers, Technics SL-Q2 turntable with AT440MLB, Chromecast Audio and a Marantz CC4300 CD player.

    I've read a lot about the Yamaha's DAC, but very little about its phono stage. The Outlaw's phono stage seems to get a lot of praise, but the DAC does not appear to be as sophisticated as the Yammie's.

    I'm actually thinking about buying both devices and doing a side by side comparison in my setup since I could return either for not a huge penalty. My gut tells me the Outlaw is the way to go, but you know wanting to be certain and all...
     
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  22. RND4mGuy

    RND4mGuy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    Great, I'd love to hear a direct comparison between the A-S801 and the Outlaw 2160.

    Can someone explain to me the bass management aspect between the two. The Yammie has a sub out jack but the Outlaw allows you to set a crossover in the receiver. So with the Yamaha, the sub out just sends a full-range signal and my subwoofer handles the crossover? Why is the Outlaw's way of handling the bass better? Just trying to narrow it down for my needs as I will be using a sub with my standmounts.
     
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  23. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Our own @Helom should be able to help you, there.
     
  24. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    The Outlaw will apply a high and low pass filter (a full crossover, in other words), so it directs the bass away from the L/R and to the sub output at 60, 80, or 100Hz. Most integrateds (like the Yamaha, presumably), simply send a full-range signal from the "subwoofer" output and you'd use the sub's own low-pass filter (not really a crossover, just half of one) to limit how high in frequency the sub will go. The L/R speakers are not affected and are sent the same full-range signal regardless of the presence of a sub.

    I prefer high-passing the speakers and sparing them the heavy-lifting of deep bass. The smaller the speaker (and louder the playback level), the greater the gain from high-passing them.

    Some subwoofers do have a full high/low pass network onboard, but it requires either a separate amp/preamp or pre-out/amp in-jacks (and long runs of cables, typically) on an integrated to make use of them. It also strikes me that it's kind of an afterthought feature on a sub, and not really something you'd want in your main signal path. The Outlaw network is apparently derived from their ICBM multichannel analog crossover, which was held in high regard for its sound quality.
     
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  25. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Thanks for clearing that up. I learn something new everyday. :)
     
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