Revisiting Duke - Genesis: It's actually good.

Tony Bank's ascending symphonic swirl during the climax/outro of "One For The Vine" is every bit as
affecting as The Who's "Won't Get Fooled Again", but few listeners today (even in 1977) had enough patience
for symphonic rock.

 

that said, The Carpet Crawlers is a very rewarding listen, as beautiful as Comfortably Numb, but not as resonant to the
casual listener.

 

But The Wall is not too difficult to follow. I have the thinnest of grasps even now on the narrative in The Lamb. But that's ok because I love the album anyway.

 

Not familiar with the album but saw a NM copy at my local used record store a few days ago. It was marked ‘PROMOTIONAL - Not For Sale’. For $2.50 I had to take it home. Haven’t listened to it yet. I’ll give it a spin this weekend.

 

I follow the first two sides of the Wall but get lost somewhere in side 3 with the worms and side 4 seems like it is from a different planet, presumably one devoid of catchy melodies.

 

For the past 15+ years, I've rated Who's Next as my favorite album of all time. There's a lyric and a melody there for every mood,
its an enduring, exciting roller coaster than compliments a full life within its 9 songs.

Yet I prefer the Genesis canon overall, and likely rate Genesis higher on my fave band lists.

 

The reason they do Tommy tours and Quad tours but not "Who's Next" tours is that all the tours not called Tommy or Quad tours include most of Who's Next (and they also play a good chunk of it at the Tommy and Quad tours).

 

ahh - thinking about Who tours makes me wonder who would be the best choice to fill Daltrey's shoes - should Pete wish to continue touring after Roger has retired.

I'm thinking in the vein of someone who could do for The Who what Adam Lambert did for Queen.

I don't think either Ed Sheeran or Bruno Mars fit the bill.

Myles Kennedy??

 

While I'd rate SEVERAL Genesis albums equal to or better than Dark Side, Who's Next, Zep IV, Sgt Pepper's, or whatever Britrock classic you'd care to name, Rutherford has a point. There's no ONE Genesis album that everyone needs to start with, no one easy access point where beginners can best enter their weird, wonderful world. I seriously tie myself up in knots wondering which Genesis album to recommend for friends who aren't familiar with them.

 

Duke=my favorite Genesis album by a long shot. I also prefer the first four Peter Gabriel solo albums to most of what he did when he was in the band.

And I cannot stress this fact enough: Phil is very unfairly maligned by certain types of people.

Thank you and good night.

 

I think he can sell as many tix under his own name as he could sell as the sole survivor in The Who and will just perform under his own name to the extent he wants to keep performing.

Now if Pete kicks it, Daltry will tour as The Who

 

It is hard to say. Yeah, Duke would be the closest thing to THAT album but most likely Selling England By The Pound (or Foxtrot- those two are usually the albums I see most often touted as Genesis 'masterpieces') and A Trick Of The Tail wouldn't be far behind in the eyes of the fans. Joe Shmoe, though, yeah, they probably know "Misunderstanding" and "Turn It On Again", and probably don't wrinkle their nose at them the way they would some of other more well known songs like "Invisible Touch" etc.

 

Absolutely not IMO. Duke is a good album, but I'll choose Abacab over it every time and consider it far closer to "Milestone" material. The Singles of Abacab, No Reply and Man On The Corner out performed the Duke singles -and let's face it, Misunderstanding is pretty dire. And I love the earlier Gabriel material and even find much to like in Genesis S/T and Invisible Touch.

Nothing on Duke interests me as much as the songs Abacab, Keep It Dark, Dodo / Lurker and Me and Sara Jane.

 

Genesis vs. The Who...

Well in both cases, both ended (as recording bands) on very different notes than they started. You can say "who'd have thought the band with the fox head would sell out Wembley Stadium with a singing drummer?" about Genesis. But then, "who'd have thought the rough little mod band always 2-3 steps behind the Stones and Beatles would invent arena rock?"

So I don't know what Who record I'd point someone towards, because I find that Who fans can be splintered between pre-Tommy and anything that came after. Hating Who's Next doesn't mean you'll hate Sell Out.

If we're talking Genesis, to me, it's easy - check out SEBTP for the PG stuff, and then Duke for the grandest of the Phil era. This might seem odd at first thought, but I feel like whatever makes Genesis what they were, that can be heard on both SEBTP and Duke.

Regarding Genesis never having a classic "IT" record - that never seemed to be the point of them, to me. Especially the '70s records, there's some real oddball stuff to get lost in, if you're into that.

 

selling England by the pound would be the one I give someone. or maybe wind and wuthering my personal favorite and if they don't like it while their loss...

 

There are two places to start: Selling England and Trick

 

Duke: for me, the last great Genesis album

 

Umm not if you were 12 years old in 1980 when Duke was released.
The places to start depends on your age and what era you got into music.
For me it will always be Duke, because that was my first Genesis album.
I never got into The Gabriel years or the start of Collins,because it was way before my time.
I can listen to them and enjoy the music though.

 

You can choose to believe Phil was focused on Genesis. That's your choice. I choose to believe he focused on his solo career. I can support my arguments as much as you, respectfully, that he wasn't as focused on Genesis and had perhaps understandably gotten a little tired toward the end of the '80s.

No, there were never any schedule conflicts as far as I am aware. Yes, Genesis played Wembley. Phil didn't. Those are facts.

I don't think I would describe Invisible Touch as a let down, either. It sold 6 million copies.

But here's the thing. Invisible Touch sold half as much as No Jacket Required. Invisible Touch sold 6 million copies and No Jacket Required sold 12 million copies, with two number 1 hits and a number 1 album. Invisible Touch had a number 1 single, but not 2 and it was not a chart-topping album.

But Seriously had more hits than Invisible Touch. But Seriously hit number 1 with a number 1 single, and 4 top 5 singles, although it had less legs, only reaching 4 million sold.

Phil's 4 solo albums from the '80s sold 24 million copies in total. Genesis' 4 albums from the '80s sold 14 million copies in total.

The numbers don't lie. It's not crazy to suggest the ultimate arbiter of pop music is in fact its popularity. By units sold, Phil was significantly more popular by himself than with Genesis. And let's not forget, the bigger Phil got, the bigger Genesis got. He was Genesis' front man and star. He significantly added to their sales. I choose to believe Phil's solo work took some focus off Genesis, particularly artistic focus, but it was all mega-successful anyway.

And I still love Duke.

 

IMO Abacab divides the fans too much. But what do I know? I'm the guy who, if I was in a situation where I'd be introducing somebody to Genesis for the first time, I'd be inclined to play them Seconds Out!

 

I assume TOAT is a typo for Trick of the Tail...? Otherwise I am confused.

 

Of course

 

I was five years old when I heard Turn It On Again on the radio and convinced my Father to buy Duke at the local record store. I loved the cartoon-ish imagery of Albert and immediately connected with some of the music (other bits took longer to get embedded). As such I cannot be objective about this record, but I know I would defend it as if it were a member of my family and that when the key change hits at the end of Dukes End I have had to hold back a tear on more than one occasion.

While in retrospect the group written material is the stronger (although I love Man of Our Times for example), as a whole I think it's the perfect meeting of prog and pop, with a little new wave energy absorbed from the surroundings to keep it vital. I would agree that it's where Collins truly found his voice and also where Rutherford found his own 'clipped' guitar style which crops up again and again through the 80s.

Despite or maybe because I came into the Genesis story at this half way/pivotal point, I've never had an issue between the various eras or seen this huge change in style or quality that many people reference. The hairs on the back of my neck go up when I hear No Son of Mine or Driving The Last Spike, just like they do at the intro to Watcher of the Skies or the crescendo of Stagnation.

 

Sorry, abacab, as the definitive album? Give the tapes to David Hentschel to remix and then maybe we can talk. I draw the line between Duke and all that followed because of the ungodly unprog dry gated drum **** sound that define abacab and its followups.

 

I love Abacab too. It sort of picks up where Duke leaves off. Although, obviously, the prog is really over by Abacab. But still, it was a very state-of-'80s-hard-rock-AOR release. It is clean sounding and it has some great songs.