Belle Klipsch review

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by SKATTERBRANE, Mar 18, 2018.

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  1. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    Recording and mastering is highly variable I agree and my listening is a work around to this fact.

    However...

    Dumping 50 to 70% of my tunes wouldn't work for me.

    I do believe there are other great sounding speakers out there that compete with and better the Klipsch sound without the unlistenable effect.

    Could be more than microphonic effect at work here.
     
  2. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Okay, list of amps I put in the system with the Belles:
    Threshold S300II
    Crown PL3
    Crown PL4
    Electron Kinetics Eagle 2C
    PrimaLuna ProLogue 5
    Stock 1979 Dynaco ST70
    Amp section of NAD 312
    Amp section of NAD C326BEE

    List of preamps:
    Crown SL2
    Threshold FET10He
    Spectral DMC-15
    Xiang Sheng 726A
    PrimaLuna ProLogue Premium
    Preamp section of NAD 312
    Preamp section of NAD C326BEE

    And remember I am running a stereo pair of ENTEC subwoofers with a passive crossover. The amp's input impedance will determine which one of the 6 selections I would choose to get approximately the same crossover point fed to the Belles. I shoot for a 50hz signal to the Belles. What this accomplishes is relieving the power amp having to reproduce much below 50hz, which frees up some available dynamics and I would suppose would be easier on power tubes in the long run.

    I am NOT going to rank these. That would be incredibly time consuming! But the best overall sound I get using several recordings for different aspects is:
    The preamp section of the NAD C326BEE and the Dynaco amp. Some combinations render all but the best recordings unlistenable. Some combinations are too dark. I am looking for detail without harshness and also without getting too dark, which makes it harder to understand lyrics.

    I have one more preamp that I am itching to try but it is currently in the shop, a PS Audio 5.0. I especially want to try the "Straightline" mode. That essentially makes it a passive preamp with controls. I started out thinking a tube preamp and a SS power amp would be the best combination no matter what speakers I would ever have. With the Belles, a SS preamp and tube power amp seems to be to my liking.

    The ALK Universal crossovers are still on order.
     
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  3. William Bryant

    William Bryant Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nampa, Idaho
    Wow! Another Eagle 2 owner! Driving my Vandersteens my Eagle 2 sounds smooth and warm and lifelike, and it has a lock on the woofers like no other amp I've ever heard. Just a fantastic combination. If things sound harsh with your Eagle in the mix it ain't the Eagle.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2018
  4. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    I love my Eagle 2C, with ANY other speaker I have ever had.
     
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  5. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    So what happened to the PrimaLuna ProLogue Premium + the PrimaLuna Prologue Five combination?
     
  6. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    It was very good.
     
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  7. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    But, were you saying that you found the SS preamp better?
     
  8. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Slightly. I am thinking it is a matter of preamp output resistance vs amp input resistance in some cases. And I certainly won't say "better" in all aspects. But the NAD preamp section and the Dynaco with its HIGH input resistance seems to give me the tonal balance that pleases me most. And that is considering at least 10 different CDs (sometimes a lot more) listening to certain things. The NAD preamp section and the Dynaco let's me relax and listen to a whole CD with enjoyment. It may also be that the unforgiving "lens" of the Belles along with the most accurate electronics just makes bad recordings impossible for me to enjoy. So, I am sure it must be a preference to certain distortions and colorations.

    I am not done yet though. It may be a while before I come to a conclusion on this.
     
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  9. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Yep, changing around tens of thousands of $ worth of preamps and amps around is certainly the "hard way" of making tone adjustments. You'd think they would just invent tone controls! o_O Ha, ha. Well I can see where a very high quality 15 band graphic equalizer would solve a lot of problems.
     
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  10. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Solve some problems and create others.

    You have been on a tear. Speakers two amps and a pre in the last month? You certainly earned the right to give a review of Belle’s.
     
  11. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Okay. I put them up for sale. I put my Rogers Studio 1A back in. No resonance problem. HOWEVER, when I play my stereo at soft to moderate levels with the Rogers and touch the Belles which now are stored in the far corner of the room, I can FEEL the Belles vibrate, especially at the frequency that is most prominent. No crossover in the world will address cabinet resonance! If it were not for that one thing, I would keep them. I LIKE the "Klipsch sound" in general.

    I think speakers should be made of the same material we made cabinets at Lear Jet, corrugated aluminum. DEAD sounding. When you hit the Lear Jet cabinets with a hammer they just go "doink".
     
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  12. bradleyc

    bradleyc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    Did you consider adding some bracing to your Belles?
     
  13. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    There must be some kind of construction issue with your Belle's!

    Being that they are really re-purposed La Scala's,that were better designed for the home. While the La Scala's are 24" square at the base and 30" tall, the Belle's have about the same interior cabinet space, but are taller wider and thinner. But they are both built like brick you know what's.

    My La Scala's are commercial models, so they have more bracing than their home counterpart's, so the commercial cabinets are stronger than the home cabinets. My pair is also covered in Baltic Birch plywood, which is really hard and dense. But, there is no way these babies are going to resonate. Not gonna happen.

    I have never heard a Klipsch cabinet resonate. I'm not saying that it impossible, just that I have never known one to resonate.

    You could not stand to be in a room where these La Scala's are being played loud enough to resonate. Your ears would be bleeding.

    The first thing you need to examine is the custom veneer wood on your cabinet. If you are experiencing cabinet resonance, there's a good shot that it is originating from the custom veneer job and not the cabinet itself.
     
  14. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    I am tired of all the excuses, the apologies. There is no reason on earth that someone has to go through all of this to get a set of speakers to sound good. Any decent speaker will generally sound better as better electronic equipment is put on line. I would rather sell the Belles that all the wonderful amps and preamps that sound GREAT with my Rogers. Even if I have to through them away, I'd be better off doing that than selling my Threshold, Electron Kinetics or Spectral stuff for a loss. And I do not have to put up with tube amps/preamps any longer either.

    I do not hear the resonance emanating from the cabinet per se' but it DOES color the music so that it all but obliterates fine detail and nuance in the region of the resonance. It would almost be worth it to make a YouTube video of a monster truck crushing them and then set the damned things on fire. My anxiety has gone down by 50% since I took them out of my system and put the Rogers back in.

    (the previous is a paid actor and not an actual fan of Klipsch speakers).
     
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  15. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    WOW!
     
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  16. bradleyc

    bradleyc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    Hells Belles!
     
  17. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    This concludes Malcontent Klipsch Corner. We now return to our regularly scheduled program.
     
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  18. dmckean

    dmckean Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Belles suck, there is good reason they're not part of the current heritage line. The K-500 horn is probably the worst horn Klipsch ever made.
     
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  19. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Wow! That's really saying something, considering how many bad horns that Klipsch has made over the years.
     
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  20. cadeallaw

    cadeallaw Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dayton, OH
    Did you try turning your stereo off and then turning it back on again?
     
  21. Synthfreek

    Synthfreek I’m a ray of sunshine & bastion of positivity

    For the love of god...just get a pair of Cornwalls!
     
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  22. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    I have Fortes, and they are great. Maybe I can peel the rosewood off the Belles and put it on the Fortes?
     
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  23. jcmusic

    jcmusic Forum Resident

    Location:
    Terrytown, La.
    It seems to me the new veneer has something to do with your issues, lots of of others have the same speakers and none have mentioned the issue you are having!!!
     
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  24. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Your right! A someone who owns the other incarnation of Belles, the La Scala's, I know, that no matter what or how much I do to them, they will never sound like the Altec's. So I have not even tried. What would be the point? I know that I can do any number of mods and better the sound, but there are design limitations that are inherent to their design that precludes their use as a quality home speaker. They were designed as PA speakers, at the end of the day, they will still be PA speakers.

    Cornwall's have always been their best choice of their legacy speakers for use in the home. With reasonable and quite affordable mods, they are excellent speakers for home stereo use. Provided, they have proper amplification, by this, I mean tubes.

    You might be able to get away with SS amplification with the Heresy's, but that is about it, for legacy Klipsch products, they were designed for tube amplification, so use tubes, unless you enjoy grating your teeth a lot, during a listening session.
     
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  25. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    This has always been in the back of my mind when people give great reviews about Belle's. It's not like Klipsch is known to give up on Heritage line speaker designs and yet they did in this case. The reality is likely that it was too similar to the La Scala's and they were competing against themselves.

    I will say this, when reviewing a 30 year old speaker, it's hard to know if what you are working with is truly representative of the entire line. While I think it is a long shot that adding a veneer would create resonance, it's certainly not the way it came from the factory. As was suggested here, people get inside of them and make changes. If they don't get inside and make changes, we are talking about internal parts that have been in service well beyond their life expectancy when purchased.

    The resonance thing in general does sound like crazy talk. Certainly the cabinet of any speakers factors into the sound but to say that resonance can be detected from another speaker from across the room at a low level of volume is odd. I'm sure it's not a good speaker for the OP but I don't think it's because the cabinet is shaking around like a strung out hooker on meth.
     
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