Styrene LPs...........

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Tetrack, Feb 7, 2005.

  1. narkspud

    narkspud Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tustin, CA, USA
    The problem with this whole thread: There were styrene pressings that were pressed, not injection moulded. Many of them have been described by posters in this thread. (The King and Mercury stuff, for example.)

    These look exactly like vinyl records - labels pressed into the plastic, and rough or tapered edges - but they "ding" like styrene and exhibit the same shredding problems. The late 1950s "Deccalite" LPs fall into this category, as do some of Monarch's early-1960s LPs and late-1950s 45s, the Halo/Concertone/Varsity/etc. budget label LPs, and many an LP on King. They will often have strange little hairline wrinkles in the label paper, but not necessarily.

    And they definitely DO warp, just ... differently. It's more of a full-surface distortion rather than little hills and valleys. I know this all too well - my styrene pressing of "Don't Be a Bunny" by Sugar and Spice (on Wing) is just barely playable thanks to a nasty warp.

    Jubilee, BTW, owned Monarch, so it's no surprise that Monarch styrene popped up on a lot of Jubilee records from the early 1960s. But it all depended on where you lived. If you were on the East Coast, you didn't see much Monarch (even from Jubilee), whereas West Coasters didn't see much Shelley from the Liberty/UA labels.

    The Decca styrene pressings ended right around 1962, which was when MCA bought out Decca.
     
    eddiel likes this.
  2. MonkeyLizard

    MonkeyLizard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    I also have "The Guitar Genius of The Ventures" and it is in fact pressed on Styrene.
     
  3. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I discovered this recentlyish much to my annoyance! I thought I had it down pat in terms of working out if a record was styrene just through good photos alone, or at least I could obtain enough doubt to have to double check. But it seems the only way to really tell is to do the "ding" test.

    I've asked some online sellers if a certain record they had was a styrene press and many replied that they had no idea what I was talking about despite the fact they had been collecting for 20 years, etc. I always wonder if they think I'm some crazy fool as many don't reply to me after I tell them the difference between styrene and vinyl pressing. :)

    Unfortunately, many of the records I'm searching for e.g. early King, Decca are on styrene. In some cases I just get a later issue.

    On a positive note, I noticed my styrene pressings don't attract the level of static my other records do
     
  4. Walter H

    Walter H Santa's Helper

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    I don't think the ubiquitous 10" classical mail-order label Musical Masterpiece Society has been mentioned. From what I've seen the styrene records have darker blue labels, and the (more common) vinyl pressings have light blue labels.
     
  5. It's funny. I have many Decca, Coral & Brunswick 45's dating back to the early-50's, and every one of them is vinyl. As it was 45's which were usually styrene, it surprises me to hear that their LP's were styrene. Seems like Decca was bucking the industry trend.

    As I said, I set several 7" 45rpm records outside in the sun on a hot day(around 100 degrees F), half were vinyl and half were styrene. The vinyl ones warped, the styrenes stayed flat. The reason I did this is because the topic of warped records came up in a jukebox group I am a member of . The consensus was that styrene records don't warp. Several of the members have worked for jukebox companies for many years and know firsthand about record warping. They would get called out on a jukebox repair because it was jammed up. The culprit was a vinyl 45. The jukeboxes had too much exposure to the sun. They never had a service call because of a warped styrene 45.

    Never heard of a connection between Monarch Records and Jubilee. All my Jubilee, Josie and Jay-Gee 45's are vinyl. You'd think that if they owned Monarch they'd be pressed on styrene. The first vinyl 45's I've seen from Monarch were a few promo 45's on the A&M label, maybe in the early 70's? Other A&M 45's pressed on vinyl were pressed by Columbia Santa Maria. I have lots of those. In the mid-80's Monarch switched to vinyl 45's and their LP's also became more pliable.
     
  6. narkspud

    narkspud Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tustin, CA, USA
    Yep. Weird, ain't it.

    IIRC Jubilee owned interest in several factories, which they later sold. But I've seen PLENTY of styrene Jubilee singles pressed by Monarch. Example: https://www.discogs.com/Raindrops-T...et-Even-Though-You-Cant-Dance/release/4283789
     
  7. Walter H

    Walter H Santa's Helper

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    Interesting to learn that some styrene records were pressed. I had assumed they were all injection molded.

    Compounds differ, whether styrene or vinyl. I classify Deccalite with the styrene records based on the sound they make when you flick the edge of the record. Yes, it's a bit odd that Decca always used vinyl for their 45s. I've never seen one in styrene.

    Warping: maybe styrene records can withstand higher temperatures before they deform?
     
  8. Sax-son

    Sax-son Forum Resident

    Location:
    Three Rivers, CA
    I have yet to ever see a styrene LP. 45's and 10" yes, but no LP's. I am not saying that they don't exist, but out of my LP collection of over 800 I can't remember a one.
     
  9. zebop

    zebop Well Known Stranger

    I just picked up my third copy of The Crusaders Images and it looks to be styrene? I'm actually shocked. Off the top of my head, I also have a Trammps III that's styrene and long gone copy of the Jackson 5's Joyful Jukebox Music. Probably more but it's really noticeable when you look for it.
     
  10. As I stated earlier, Deccalite is a vinyl/vinyl acetate compound and not styrene. Like styrene, the Deccalite is inflexible and hard. What I have noticed is that materials like Deccalite will chip whereas styrene cracks.
    Also as I stated earlier, I placed styrene and vinyl 45's in direct sunlight on a hot summer day outside and the vinyl 45's warped while the styrene 45's didn't. I've never seen a warped styrene 45.
    Also, this week when it was 101 degrees outside, I put a Decca record marked Deccalite out in the sunlight and it warped.
     
    OldMusicOnVinyl1 likes this.
  11. If the Crusaders LP is an ABC/Blue Thumb U.S. version, it would most likely have been pressed by Columbia, Santa Maria(very flexible vinyl) or Monarch "MR" and would be a poorer quality of stiff vinyl. Discogs lists all U.S. versions of the LP to be vinyl. Same goes for the Trammps LP, all are listed as vinyl. At the end of the matrix number on the labels, there should be an SP, MO, RI or PR. The SP is for Specialty Records and it would definitely be a high quality vinyl. MO is Monarch Records and it would be a stiffer lower quality vinyl. RI(Philips) and PR(Presswell) could have also been lower quality stiff vinyl. I can't imagine a styrene LP in 1977.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
  12. Walter H

    Walter H Santa's Helper

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    Yes, you mentioned that twice before, and I'm not disagreeing. What I suggested was that styrene records probably deform at higher temperatures than records pressed from vinyl compound. Try a pizza oven and let us know how that turns out. :laugh:
     
    zebop likes this.
  13. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Did Decca use styrene as well as Deccalite? I have some Decca's that appear to be Styrene since they have similar characteristics to other styrene pressings I've come across. Is there a way to tell the difference? I haven't noticed any difference but I'm not sure what to look for. In your experience is Deccalite as bad as styrene in terms of durability and required care in choosing a stylus?
     
  14. It's hard for me believe that Decca used styrene. My 10" Decca LP's were made throughout the 50's and all appear to be some sort of a vinyl mix, which would include Deccalite. If you have some expendable junk records which you think are styrene, expose them to 100+ degree Fahrenheit heat or maybe even direct sunlight might do it and see if they warp. If they do, they are not styrene but a form of vinyl.
    On another note, I have never seen a Canadian record made of styrene, even 45's, and I've got quite a few Canadian 45's, 78's and LP's in my collection.
    In the U.S., Decca bought Universal in 1952 and then merged with MCA. In 1962, MCA became the main company and Decca became a subsidiary. MCA then owned Decca and some other labels. Interestingly, many of the MCA subsidiary labels, like UNI and Congress, farmed out their pressings and the 45's were often styrene and pressed by Monarch in the U.S.
    Styrene or Deccalite records don't need any different type of stylus. It all depends on how you play the records and what their groove width is. If you do a lot of back-cuing, you should use a conical stylus. Normal playing of a microgroove record, a .7mil elliptical is fine. The mono records were cut for a 1mil stylus and if the records are in excellent shape, that's what you might use. If they are worn, and you know they have always been played with a 1mil stylus, a .7mil stylus will ride deeper in the grooves below the surface wear.
     
  15. weaselriot

    weaselriot Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I just received a near mint Procol Harum debut album with BW after the matrix numbers in the deadwax. BW is Bestway Productions Inc., which indicates a styrene LP. I think it's the first Procol Harum LP on Deram pressed on styrene. Here is what Discogs said about Bestway Productions:

    "Defunct injection-molding record pressing plant which was located in Mountainside, New Jersey, USA.
    Founded in 1946 and active until the mid-1980s.
    The company pressed for labels such as Bell, Scepter, Yew, etc. Bestway's Founder, Al Massler, was responsible for pioneering the manufacturing practice of using styrene to press records (particularly 45's).

    Often marked with a "B", "BW", "BEST", or oblique "Bestway" stamped in run-out. "BW" may be found also in the label matrix."

    That said, styrene LPs are quite rare during the period of my main concern (1960s and later) but 45 rpm singles on styrene were quite common. It seems that Bestway pressed only styrene, mostly 45s at that.

    My newest "Procol Harum" is a beautiful clean pressing, but now I am afraid to play it before doing a bunch of research.
     
  16. Francisx

    Francisx Forum Resident

    5,123 or maybe 5,127.
     
  17. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Play it only with newish stylus with correct weight and cart alignment. It may have odd wear already and not agree with a perfect setup anyway. These are such fussy toy disposable records.
     
  18. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Hhmm. I've had a number of 'Bestway' stamped LPs (stamped name in italics, not initials) and they are definitely not styrene. Bestway stamped for London / Deram records i.e. your Procol Harum. Plus Rolling Stones, Moody Blues etc.
     
    weaselriot likes this.
  19. fortherecord

    fortherecord Senior Member

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Beau Brummels Vol. 1 and Vol 2. were pressed on both vinyl and Styrene. The Vol. 2 album is almost impossible to find in a vinyl pressing though. I have a stereo copy of that on styrene, which I handle very delicately.
     
    geo50000 likes this.
  20. weaselriot

    weaselriot Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL

    My Procol Harum label was not glued, which at one time meant (to me) not styrene. I have since learned that is not always the case.

    However, Bestway is stated to have been an injection molding facility started by the guy who developed the process for styrene. Are you absolutely sure that some (or even ANY) Bestway product is pressed vinyl?

    I have seen a number of threads on styrene records confirming that some of the "rules of thumb" for identifying a styrene record vs a vinyl pressing are not 100% determinative. One is the glued vs pressed-in label, another is the tapered or rough edge vs smooth finished edge. I tried the "ding/thud" test, but on a 12" LP that may be a tougher distinction to notice. Mine did seem somewhat "hollow" or "dingy" sounding, but I am not 100% sure. I found it easier to tell the difference with small 45 rpm records.

    Does anybody else know anything about Bestway product, especially whether they also pressed vinyl? I think it is safe to say that I for one will studiously avoid buying ANY LPs with Bestway (BW) following the matrix number on the label or deadwax until I know a lot more than I do now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
  21. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    I recently got a copy of Bing's Songs I Wish I Had Sung on the black and silver Decca label. I'm assuming this was a first press from 1956. This does not feel like any vinyl I've ever encountered - must be the Deccalite you speak of.

    Without thinking, I gave it a spin with my modern stylus and I have to say I was SHOCKED by how quiet the pressing was (no groove noise at all) and the sound itself was quite impressive.

    Hopefully I've not done any damage to the record as I hope to play it again. Also - what on earth should I clean it with?
     
  22. To be safe, don't use a cleaner which contains alcohol if in doubt.
    Never use a cleaner with alcohol on a shellac record. I also discovered recently that you shouldn't use an alcohol-based cleaner on plastic records, like the Philco Hip-Pocket records. It melts the grooves and/or flattens them. Luckily I had a brand new sealed copy of the record which was ruined.
     
    AppleCorp3 likes this.
  23. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    Good call. Dawn and water it is.
     
  24. lennonfan1

    lennonfan1 Senior Member

    Location:
    baltimore maryland
    I see these wild record cleaning methods and just shake my head.
    For the last 40 odd years, all I use is hot clean water and a super clean white towel.
    wet the towel on the end quarter and apply firmly to the vinyl, spin in the direction of the groove. dry the same way using the dry end of the towel. It works as almost a steam clean method and has very little contaminates.
     
  25. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    You think warm water and some dish detergent is "wild?"

    I've never had an issue cleaning my shellac this way.
     

Share This Page

molar-endocrine