Balls to Picasso - Wikipedia Looks like Wikipedia might have info on the availability of songs from the two aborted sessions.
Here’s some of that Wikipedia info: "Over and Out", "Tibet", "Tears of the Dragon (First Bit, Long Bit, Last Bit)", "Cadillac Gas Mask", and "No Way Out...To Be Continued" are all songs recorded with producer Keith Olsen and set for inclusion on the second, aborted version of Balls to Picasso, also referred to by insiders as "The Peter Gabriel Album". Other songs from these sessions that have yet to surface on any Dickinson release include "Man of Sorrows" (re-recorded for Accident of Birth; an older demo version from 1990 appears on The Best of Bruce Dickinson), "Original Sin" and "Thank Heaven".
Skunkworks, Bruce Dickinson Bruce's third solo album offers a change in sound once again. Released in 1996, Skunkworks is named after the code word for a military testing program. Bruce intended Skunkworks to be the debut album by a band of the same name but his label said otherwise. Line up: Bruce Dickinson - vocals Alex Dickson - guitar Chris Dale - bass Alessandro Elena - drums 1. Space Race: I like the mid-tempo of this opening track. Good song. 2. Back From The Edge: Trippy guitar work here. This song reminds me of something off of The Final Frontier. I like it. 3. Inertia: Now we change it up. This is certainly not something we've heard from Bruce before. Still, not bad but this doesn't grab me. 4. Faith: Guitars are solid but this one isn't doing it for me. Next! 5. Solar Confinement: Good but not very memorable. 6. Dreamstate: Now this does sound alternative rock. Not a fan of this song. 7.I Will Not Accept the Truth: I will not accept the truth that this song made it onto the album. Terrible. 8. Inside the Machine: This is listenable but nothing about it really stands out. 9. Headswitch: Again, this doesn't really do it for me. No hooks. 10. Meltdown: Sorry guys but not feeling this one either. Chorus is alright. 11.Octavia: Better. I like the laid back pace of this one. Really cool guitar stuff going on too. 12. Innerspace: I Like this one a lot. Melodies are great. 13. Strange Death in Paradise: The final track just kind of plods along, not going anywhere. Not a fan. I very recently heard Skunkworks for the first time. (last night, lol) but I listened to each song all the way through. I never bought it upon release because at the time I heard negative reviews and also that it was more like a grunge or alternative rock album and that turned me off. I would say it is not either of those two labels but more somewhere between hard rock and metal. For me this is a step down from both Millionaire and Picasso. It started off good but kept going down song by song. I appreciate where Bruce was trying to go but this is not for me.
I read that wikipedia info for those songs while I listened to the bonus-songs on the album , I think some of them sounded weird(ish) and had some unique feeling popping to my mind when I listened to them carefully. I thought of MTV or something, the name "The Peter Gabriel Album" is kinda neat really.
Psycho Motel, State Of Mind: I think this is kinda interesting album (especially since I never heard it back in the day) and of course it's always nice to check something that Adrian did. I might concentrate too much listening and checking guitar-stuff here but...that's the main interest point really. I remember seeing this album on sale, even some in discount-bin at one of the largest chains in Finland (now unfornately defunct) but even then I didn't get it. I didn't know anything else of this band at the time, only that it was Adrian's project. But for some reason back then I didn't buy all the Maiden-related albums. I listened to the album (I think there might have been few songs missing, not sure if the bonus-songs were there) and it's ok and not at all bad, there's some good moments, but maybe it's just the case where it just wasn't as memorable and not all the songs are equally engaging as the best ones. Maybe I will have to spin this someday again and see how it goes. Have to leave you soon here, Im gonna check and review "Skunkworks" album and it's bonus-songs tomorrow.
Thoughts on Skunkworks 1. Space Race – this is a good opener. Not the greatest thing ever, but it’s a solid tune and it shows a different side of Bruce. 2. Back from the Edge – this is one of my favorite Bruce solo tunes. It’s got a great riff, wonderful vocals, and a catchy melody. 3. Inertia – Excellent! I love this one. Very catchy. I have a hard time sitting still while listening. 4. Faith – Cool riff. It’s a solid track. 5. Solar Confinement – Wow. Great song. Wonderful chorus. It’s repetitive, but Bruce switches it up enough where I find it compelling. Bruce’s vocals are stellar. 6. Dreamstate – Zzz. Zzz. The title is accurate. The alternate title could have been “Generic 90’s Alternative Slow Track.” 7. I Will Not Accept the Truth – Hmm. You can’t handle the truth: this is filler. Listening to this album on CD, it tends to really drag here for me with these two slow, sludgy, boring tracks back-to-back. 8. Inside the Machine – Solid but unexceptional. Verses are okay. Not bad. 9. Headswitch – Sounds like Soundgarden. I dig it. Short but sweet. If only Maiden could do short barnburners like this now! 10. Meltdown – Decent but unmemorable. 11. Octavia – Solid tune. The album feels long at this point, but I wouldn’t cut this one. 12. Innerspace – I like this one. It could have been a good Maiden tune. Very heavy at parts. Nice drumming and some crunchy bass. 13. Strange Death in Paradise – This one sort of plods along without going anywhere. If this were a concert, I’d pay out my tab and leave…fetch an Uber before the competition.
Bruce Dickinson - Balls to Picasso & B-sides I remember being excited for this one, as it was Bruce's first outside of Maiden after leaving. I bought one of the Tears of the Dragon singles as soon as it was available in the US and I loved the track instantly. Around the time the album was released my local (Dallas) radio station played the hell out of Cyclops for some reason. Actually, besides the Tears single, my first exposure to most of these songs was from seeing Bruce & Alex Dickson playing an acoustic show. I had tickets to the 1994 Motley Crue show anyway (with John Corabi) and it was also announced that Crue, Bruce and Gary Hoey were going to be there signing autographs. I got Bruce to sign my Tears CD single and my copy of Piece of Mind on Revelations. He was an ultra cool dude and it was a huge moment in my life meeting him. After the Crue show Bruce played his acoustic show at The Basement, a local Dallas metal club. He played before Stuttering John (of Howard Stern fame) for some odd reason. I loved it though, great show and to see him in such an intimate venue was amazing. I believe all of the material that Bruce and Alex played was from BTP. The songs I remember hearing are Hell No, Gods of War, Change of Heart, Fire (I think?) and Tears of the Dragon. They opened with Tears of the Dragon and Bruce played guitar for that one. The other songs he just used the guitar as a percussion device. Great show and it really made me psyched for the album itself. Well, once I got it I was disappointed. I liked Tears and Cyclops, but the rest didn't impress me too much at the time. So, with modern ears I'm jumping back in... Cyclops - This sounded very modern for the time. I like that Bruce was trying new things and not just making songs that sounded like classic Maiden. It sounded completely new and fresh. Lyrically it covers the same ground as Priest's Electric Eye. Bruce's take on the subject is much more sinister. He delivers a fantastic vocal. I still love this song and the playing from Roy Z (great solos) and the rest of the Tribe of Gypsies. This was also released on a promo CD as an edited version. Hell No - vocals are a bit too low in the mix. I've come around to enjoying this song, but as with the whole album it comes across better on Alive in Studio A. It's a decent song, with some nice sludgy guitars. I'm not sure if the chorus fits the music. I love the use of percussion on this album, makes it stand out. Gods of War - No, not the Def Leppard song. It's interesting how it mellows out for the verse before coming back up for the pre-chorus and chorus. Bruce is singing in his old soaring style above the heavy/grungy guitars and I don't think it really works. I love the verses, but the choruses don't do anything for me. Roy Z plays an excellent solo here. 1000 Points of Light - Bruce is angry here so we get some heavy stuff, but also a bit of funk. The chorus is the primary calling card and it sounds good. Of course it comes from a speech from President Bush 41 since the sound clip is played right before the solo. The bridge goes into a great mellow part which kind of recalls the verses to Gods of War. There are good elements to this song, esp. the lyrics, but overall it's just average for me. Laughing in the Hiding Bush - The production NEEDS this song to be heavier. At least the later live versions really nail it. I love how Bruce can take a phrase that his young son said and turn it into this sinister thing. There's not much to this song, it's just heaviness and the odd lyrics. Roy plays some good guitar though. Change of Heart - finally we get a full mellow song. I love the jazzy/Spanish vibe of this. Bruce sings in a different style than we've heard from him in the verses. Great vocal performance on this song. Shoot All the Clowns - I've come around to this one through the years. I used to hate it...I mean, Bruce rapping??? WTF! Now, I dig this song. It's a lot of fun. As with 1000 Points, we get some more funk in here and again has Bruce trying some new stuff musically. Fire - I assume this song is a nod to Arthur Brown, who was a big inspiration on Bruce. The song's not bad, but I tend to forget about it. Feels like filler; good, but still filler. Sacred Cowboys - This is an odd song and a bit of a goof. There are elements of the song I really enjoy, like the pre-chorus and the solo section, but mostly it kind of leaves me cold. Tears of the Dragon - Here we go! This song is so unbelievably good. This was the perfect first single for this album, it really showcases Bruce's voice and songwriting abilities. I see it as the "part 2" that started with Wasting Love. In WL we get Bruce thinking about getting out. Here we the point where he finally leaves and embarks on this unknown and scary journey. Lyrically this might be my favorite of Bruce's songs. I mean, he just really lays it all out there why he had to leave Maiden and how he felt creatively stifled. Everything in this song is incredibly well written. We get the mellow verses, the epic soaring chorus, the fantastic guitar solo...100% completely awesome song. This is one I can listen to countless times and still love it as much as I did on the first listen. Overall the album is quite good, certainly better overall than Fear of the Dark. The production is too timid for the most part, something Bruce acknowledges now. It's cool to hear the Tribe of Gypsies in this more raw state before we hit Accident of Birth and everything being more standard "metal". I love the modern touches this album has and how it expanded what Bruce could do outside of Maiden. The live versions from Alive in Studio A are the definitive recordings, but the album itself is certainly enjoyable. Tears of the Dragon is an outright classic and I would love for Maiden to bust this one out. I know it'll never happen in a million years, but I can dream. The B-sides (in order from the bonus disc): Fire Child - kind of an odd song. I'm glad they relegated this to a B-side. It's just average, but I'm glad it exists. Elvis Has Left the Building - goofy. pass. The Breeding House - very Maideny. Pretty good song, but it's not anything special. Good material for a B-side. No Way Out...To Be Continued - kind of a different sounding song with some strange lyrics. I wonder what's the story behind this one? I like this tune, kind of an odd epic. Tears of the Dragon (Acoustic Chillout) - same recording as the main album version, except it stays mellow the whole time. The album version is clearly an edit of 2 different takes. Love this, Bruce sounds great. Winds of Change - re-recording of the Tattooed Millionaire B-side. Interesting that he tried this one again and it still ended up as a B. The song is still really basic and pretty boring. His voice is better here than on the TM version, that one was more raspy. Spirit of Joy - pretty bland, sounds like it was from the earlier session. Over and Out - This is the weird one. "You were too weird", indeed. I *love* that Bruce went so far out of the box for this one. I mean, it's so bizarre! I'm glad he tried it, all this drum programming and background vocalists and keyboards. I don't think it's a very good song, but at least he tried to do something so radically different. As much as I don't really like it, it's an oddly compelling and addicting listen. Shoot All the Clowns (12" Extended Remix) - the mix is better on this one, more punch. The bass sounds fantastic here. I wish the whole album sounded this good Laughing in the Hiding Bush (live) - Both this and the next track were recorded live in the studio with Alex Dickson, Chris Dale & Alessandro Elena and originally only on the Shoot All the Clowns 12". Damn good live version here. The Post Alternative Seattle Fall Out (live) - I love the eclecticism from this Skunkworks band. The band really brings the jazzy funk on this song. It's a silly song, but the band plays it so well that I always have to listen. Alex Dickson is a seriously great guitarist. Shoot All the Clowns (7" Remix) - a shortened version of the 12" Remix. Remixed by Chris Sheldon and it sounds so much better. Can we get Sheldon to remix the whole album? Tibet - this is another of the "Lost Keith Olsen" songs, so it's more experimental than Bruce's usual stuff. I love this song so much. The wordless chorus is really catchy even though it's so simple. Addicting song, can't get enough of it. Tears of the Dragon (First Bit, Long Bit, Last Bit) - this is the kitchen sink version of this song, originally from the Keith Olsen sessions. I love the different production on this version and how it goes into some absolutely crazy areas, like the weird "flute" bit or the orchestral part in the middle. Cadillac Gas Mask - it's like some weird pop version of AC/DC, including a direct lift from Thunderstruck. No thanks. No Way Out...Continued - the conclusion to No Way Out. I still want to know the full story, haha! I like this better than the first part. This is an excellent song with a spectacular bridge (A drowning man sees daylight...). I'm not sure if we've got all of the tracks from the Keith Olsen sessions or not, I think it's about 35 minutes total, but I'd love to hear all of it if there's more. I love this song so much.
Run to the Hills is the one I've heard most on US radio over the years, with 2 Minutes a distant second.
Psycho Motel, State of Mind "Sins of Your Father" - Man, the vocals on this are weak. It starts out with a nice groove, but goes nowhere. Bleh. "World's on Fire" - Same as the first track, it starts off a cool opening riff. Then it's just a mess with bad vocals. "Psycho Motel" - The rhythm section on this lays down a nice, heavy groove. Once again, there's no good hook, and the song goes nowhere. "Western Shore" - What's up with Hans' (whatever the rest of his name is) voice? It sounds shot. Some really nice guitar here and a nice melody. A heavy interlude comes out of nowhere, but I like this one. "Rage" - This is the kind of music my Dad would shake his head at and call noise. And maybe that's one reason I liked it! A good rocker. "Killing Time" - A good heavy groove laid down, but this song goes nowhere. "Time is a Hunter" - A very Sabbathy vibe, but Hans (whatever) ain't no Ozzy. Plodding mess. "Money to Burn" - I like this one. A dirty groove, and the vocals & guitar back it up. Deep Purple-esque. "City of Light" - Generic 80s style metal. Lazy guitar solo. "Excuse Me" - The opening sounds a lot like Nirvana. Unfortunately, this is another song that has no hooks and goes nowhere. "Last Goodbye" - Yet another song that starts with a promising groove, but the tempo changes are a mess. "Can't Wait" - Cowbell! Another Deep Purple kind of song, and I dig it. Even the vocals sound pretty good on this.
Killers - Menace to Society As always, the problem with Paul is that he doesn't seem to have a consistent vision. Who knows, maybe Paul's consistency is that you always know he's going to ape the most recent "cool" thing. Every single song is pretty much wannabe Pantera. Faceless and sad. Praying Mantis - To the Power of Ten Interesting mix between AOR and Power Metal. I'll admit, I have a hard time listening to this. I could only sit through the first 3 tracks before skipping around. It's not as bad as as Menace to Society, but it's so plain and uninteresting. Di'Anno & Stratton - The Original Iron Men Look, they even got Paul Samson on here! Ugh. Well, they're strongly in Dokken/Def Lep territory (again) here. This was the year after Menace to Society. Dude, make up your mind. These songs are so embarassing.
That was the 2nd attempt at the album. The first attempt is described by Bruce as a sort of "metal by the numbers" album. As in, safe and boring. Though, since it's Bruce it's probably pretty cool. Nothing from this first attempt has been released. Rod talked him out of releasing this version since it was too safe. The released Balls to Picasso was the *third* attempt at the album. At least we know he'll have material if he ever puts out some "rarities" box set.
Psycho Motel - State of Mind (1996) I own both of these Psycho Motel albums, but I think I've only listened to each one once or twice. This'll be fun. Sins of Your Father - much heavier than what Adrian did with City of Gold. Solli sounds a bit like Vince Neal here. I mean, MUCH BETTER, but it's still there. Adrian does a pretty good job at writing some odd-time sig grungy tunes. I like the solo, but it starts out so subtle. Once it kicks in we know who this is. Enjoyable solo, but not essential. Actually, that's my review for the song: enjoyable, but not essential. World's on Fire - got kind of an Anthrax mixed with Alice in Chains vibe on this one. Bland riffs. Has a few good moments in the solo, but it's not enough to keep my interest. Skip this one. Psycho Motel - Switch to the bluesy stuff. The mention of Aerosmith is right on. Pretty standard, but then comes the solo and it's a great change with the best music so far. Great solo, but too short before we go back to the sludgy riff. Not that great of a song, but it's saved by the solo. Western Shore - great change of pace. I really dig this one, nice and chill until that Hendrix-type "Manic Depression" comes in. It doesn't really fit, but I like hearing it and it at least provides something different. Adrian also gets a nice solo in the last bit. Rage - plain/average/uneventful. Few decent guitar moments, but nothing special. Killing Time - verses are meh, but the chorus is cool. Great solo on this song. I like the change for the 2nd solo and the solo itself. Time is a Hunter - reminds me of AIC's Junkhead, just nowhere near as good. Uneventful solo. This song just plods. Money to Burn - takes a cue from Dio's song of the same title. I'd much rather listen to Dio. I swear, these lyrics have every cliche in the world. Worst song on the album, by far. City of Light - Solli's vocals are really getting on my nerves by this point. Boring song. At least it has a good guitar solo. Excuse Me - this is kind of a Weezer/Nirvana mashup. I don't miss these kind of songs where the bass just plunks along and the drums play a basic beat. Chorus is decent, but nothing special. Last Goodbye - standard grungy thing, but at least there's a cool change for the pre-chorus. That's it, though. (Can't) Wait - more Hendrixy riffs. Not a good song. 7 of these songs were written by Adrian alone, with Solli helping on the others. Bassist Gary Liedeman gets a couple credits as well. Well, at least Adrian was making music again? Apart from Western Shore and some solos here and there, there's not much for me to grab onto with this album.
Gonna throw this out there before I head to bed. Here's Bruce with Godspeed doing Sabbath Bloody Sabbath from 1995: It's decent and Bruce sings it well, but it's nowhere near the original or even the Anthrax version.
Happy 38th Anniversary to the "Iron Maiden"-album, which was originally released on april 14th, 1980. The debut-album which started it all and it's still one of their best albums and definitely one my alltime favorites (not talking only of Maiden-albums) I might post couple of these important dates, anniversaries or other important events but Im not gonna keep checking these daily. Once in a while if I remember some important one, I will post here it here if needed. Our reviews of the album: Iron Maiden Song By Song Thread with introduction by @Musicman1998 Iron Maiden (album) - Wikipedia Iron Maiden - Iron Maiden
I've been thinking about Bruce. Everybody knows he's a jack-of-all-trades (singer, fencer, author, pilot, motivational coach....), and as much as it's his singing for which he we like him best, I guess that he doesn't define himself that way. As big as Iron Maiden is/was, it's just a facet of how he sees himself. What I want to say is that, contrary to most famous musicians, Bruce seems not be THAT into it. Maybe he's better served within a band that pushes him and is fond of his contribution instead of being the sole chief commander, like a ship with no sails. He definitely seems to need the challenge to get the best out of him. Within Iron Maiden, he has all of that. In his solo-years, confronted with the lack of exactly that, he often seemed unfocused (here, I don't really count "Accident Of Birth" or "Chemical Wedding" because of Smithy's inclusion and the already set musical focus). Well, at least that's my attempt to understand what happened in the mid-nineties. How can one such overwhelming character act so misguided music-wise? Maybe because he just didn't care for enough. Or, that was my last idea, he's not that different from Paul DiAnno in being able to sing quite everything, but lacking an artistic musical vision. I really could imagine that it was his management that told him "Go back to your Maiden-stuff or you'll end up like Paul!". I mean, as much as I really, really love "Accident Of Birth" and "Chemical Wedding", it was somehow the end of Bruce's solo carreer and much more a preparing of ways to go back into Iron Maiden. I always saw "Accident Of Birth" and "Chemical Wedding" as the best Maiden had to offer in the nineties.
Don’t have time to really do a song by song review of Skunkworks at the moment, but I really liked this when it was released. The alternative sound didn’t bother me, as I embraced alt rock when it exploded, rather than run from it, and found a lot of cool bands I still enjoy to this day. (Plus, given that I was in 8th grade when Nevermind came out, I think the 90s alternative movement was really driven by people close to my age. We couldn’t escape it.) It’s just a label. At the end of the day guitar based rock is where it’s at for me, whether it’s Slayer or Screaming Trees. Anyhoo, the standout tracks on this for me were always Back From the Edge, Inertia, Inside the Machine (despite lyrics that sound like some Geoff Tate tripe), and Innerspace.
Annoying. I can’t be arsed to order a third copy. On the two copies I’ve received disc2 has some pressing defect noise on the lead in and between songs. I’ll live with it. Loving the album though!
I wouldn't say Bruce was misguided, musically or otherwise, after his departure from Maiden; I happen to like all his solo material that decade, and think it was a necessary step for him to detach himself from what he saw as a stifling and increasingly stale environment back in Maiden, branching out with new musicians and exploring new sounds... I think he absolutely cared about those albums when making them, he said himself he tore himself apart in making Skunkworks, and was utterly crushed by the largely indifferent reaction it received upon release. As far as Accident of Birth and The Chemical Wedding being calculated decisions motivated by the management, not true; after the commercial failure of Skunkworks, Bruce genuinely considered quitting the music business, until Roy Z came to him with a bunch of riffs, and Bruce knew exactly what to do with them, and it seemed to kickstart his enthusiasm again (especially with Adrian Smith joining the fray during those sessions)... and boy, did it... those two albums, single or combined, are better than the sum total of Maiden's 1990's output, by a considerable distance. I don't think it was a management decision as much as it was a genuinely organic re-embracing of the music that he felt he did best, with an active collaborator in the aforementioned Mr Z alongside him, inspiring each other... and it felt like a logical next step from it's predecessor anyway, which was quite heavy in it's own way. With hindsight, it certainly does seem clear that a reunion with Maiden was inevitable at some point, as indeed happened, but it was certainly not a foregone conclusion; if any of his solo albums through that period had taken off like a rocket, I don't think he would have returned to the Irons... at least not for another few years at least. I personally love Skunkworks and don't agree that it's any way 'grunge' or 'alt-rock' or whatever the buzz terms were back then... that was just lazy journalists applying a neat tag to something in order to classify it... it's heavy progressive rock as far as I'm concerned, and a damn good album overall that got largely - and unfairly - ignored upon release and years hence... especially when Bruce rejoined Maiden. It's also quite a logical step on from Balls to Picasso, so I personally never saw it as a radical step sideways as much as a logical step forwards... a really good and solid album. But the next two are heavy metal dynamite...
I completely agree with this take, you said it perfectly. At the time, I didn't see it as inevitable that Bruce would get back with Maiden. For me, his solo career was going strong while Maiden was falling off a cliff. I'm talking solely about the music here, because sales-wise Bruce's albums weren't doing much of anything. Either people didn't know about them or they didn't give the albums a chance. We see that all the time on this forum and others where dedicated Maiden fans haven't bothered to listen to AOB & CW. At the time of the reunion I saw it as Bruce & Adrian saving Maiden, not the other way around. As excited as I was for the new music they'd make with Maiden, there was a small part of me who was sad that we were getting anymore solo Bruce albums.
Bruce Dickinson - Alive in Studio A (1995) I’m not a huge fan of Bruce’s Balls to Picasso album, mostly due to the production, so this album is a welcome addition to Bruce’s catalog. This album features the “Skunkworks” band (Alex Dickson, Chris Dale & Alessandro Elena) performing live versions of these Picasso tunes. And, wow, they’re really good! When the songs are played live by this particular group of players they become super good. It was such a revelation hearing this for the first time, because I really liked hearing these songs. They were good! Even the ones that I had previously skipped on Balls to Picasso (things like Change of Heart & Hell No) are just stellar here. It shouldn’t surprise me, because that Skunkworks band was absolutely on fire and a phenomenal group of musicians. Disc 1 of the set is live in the studio and disc 2 is recorded in front of an audience. Between the two discs we get all of the songs from Balls to Picasso (with quite a few repeats, which is fine because the band’s so good) and a trio of songs from Bruce’s first solo album, Tattooed Millionaire. The band completely breathes new fire into these songs and I’ve frankly never heard them sound this alive. The songs from Studio A are excellent, but of course the band steps it up even further once they’re in front of the Marquee audience. I particularly love the Marquee version of Tears of the Dragon. Holy crap is this song ripping! Best version of this song by far. Alex Dickson is such a great guitar player and he brings out so much of his own style in these songs. It’s a huge step up from Roy Z’s playing of this material on Picasso. One that stood out (besides Tears of the Dragon) was Dickson’s extra bits & solo at the end of Cyclops. Alessandro Elena also adds his own excellent touch to these songs and his drumming is fantastic in Hell No particularly. I enjoy both discs equally, to be honest. All of these songs sound good when performed by this band and once Maiden hangs it up I hope Bruce goes back to these guys to make more music. As a live unit, they’re absolutely on fire.
I would love it if Maiden let Roy Z produce an album for them...maybe even have him replace Gers on guitars too.
