Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality (and general discussion): Singles, Soundtracks, Etc.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    The first Capitol coffee cup, Paul…

    [​IMG]
    (L-R) Axel Stordahl, Alan Livingston, Voyle Gilmore, and Frank Sinatra
     
  2. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
  3. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Date: 4/2/53
    Location: Los Angeles
    Lean Baby
    I'm Walking Behind You
    Day In, Day Out
    Don't Make A Beggar Of Me
    Musicians: Heinie Beau, Leonard Altman, Arthur "Skeets" Herfurt, Ted Nash (woodwinds); Rubin "Zeke" Zarchy (trumpet); Vincent DeRosa (French Horn); Harry Bluestone, Murray waiter, Alex Murray, Paul Nero, Irving Prague, Mischa Russell (violin); Paul Robyn, David Sterkin (viola); Cy Bernard (Cello); Bill Miller (piano); Phil Stephens (bass); Ray Hagan (drums); George Van Eps (guitar); Ann Mason Stockton (harp)
     
  4. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Is 1999 the correct release year for the Norberg-mastered Nice 'n' Easy CD? Or was it later?
     
  5. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    The individual CD was issued in January 2002, but it first appeared in the Concepts box set released September 2000.
     
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  6. kennyluc1

    kennyluc1 Frank Sinatra collector

    It... The Cd, went out of print very quickly.
     
  7. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Not the Norberg mastering. It’s still in print: Frank Sinatra - Nice 'n' Easy - Amazon.com Music

    BTW (@MLutthans)… Looking at that Amazon listing, I see where the date confusion stems from. The track titles state: “(1999 Digital Remaster).” That is probably the true date of the (24-bit) digital masters. The actual CD states: “℗ 1999 © 2002 Capitol Records, Inc.” As stated above, 2002 was the release date for the standalone CD.
     
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  8. roda12

    roda12 WATERTOWN FOREVER

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    The 45rpm Pal Joey 4-disc set is so beautiful! I received it in nearly mint condition. Even with the original Capitol inner sleeves included! Almost all of the sides have the D1 stamper. Love it so much! Great sound on "Lady is a tramp".
     
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  9. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Some full-page ads, from Ebay:
    s-l1600-393.jpg s-l1600-394.jpg s-l1600-395.jpg
     
  10. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Odd how they emphasize ORIGINAL, just as he songs it in the film, etc. for "Three Coins In the Fountain", when it's different from the movie version.

    Having "It Worries Me" in such large, bold letters for a tender ballad seems like they didn't hear the song before making the ad.
     
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  11. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    It makes perfect sense, when you consider the backstory. There was a legal battle over rights to the Jule Styne/Sammy Cahn song: 20th Century Fox failed to sign the contract with the songwriters, allowing them to offer it to other singers than Sinatra (The Four Aces, Dinah Shore, etc.). The Capitol ad was meant to emphasize to the marketplace that Frank had the ORIGINAL version—“just as he sings it in the film” (although not exactly, as we know).
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  12. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Right, though combining ORIGINAL and "just as he sings it in the 20th Century Fox film" goes beyond emphasizing Frank did the song first, and implies the film and Capitol version are the same.
     
  13. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I’m not saying the ad copy is true, just explaining why they used that language. In 1954, before the days of consumer video, no one was likely to do an A/B comparison. To me, the intended implication was: This is Frank’s song; HE sang it in the film.
     
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  14. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Re: Where or When from September 11, 1958

    Some yammering I was doing over in a Peggy Lee thread got me thinking about this song, and maybe I'm way off base, but.... Any chance this was an attempt to get a feel for a new album project? It's a "standard," and it's something that Sinatra had recorded previously. Certainly an odd title for a single in 1958, both in terms of pedigree and arrangement. I've often thought that "Last Night When We Were Young" was a "get a feel for this" track, and when it was done, Sinatra thought, "I want to make me a whole album of that," and In the Wee Small Hours was the eventual result. Where or When remains such an oddity. (With a little more fleshing out, it could have wound up, stylistically, on The Concert Sinatra five years later.)

    The reason this stuff came up in the Peggy Lee thread was the idea that, during the time when the mono and stereo set-ups were separate entities (late-'56 to about October '58), some sessions that were "singles only" were not being recorded in stereo in '57/'58, but sessions that contained all or some album tracks were typically covered on 3-track tape, especially for the big-name "W" price-code artists. Mr. Success was not an album track, and neither was Sleep Warm. Maybe Where or When was intended as such????? Or had potential to be?????

    Or not?
     
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  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Back to Nice 'n' Easy (the song): I think the "singles" page is now ready, with a total of 37 masterings posted (!) here. The release history is complex (including six stereo mixes) on this one, so I created this nifty (I'm kidding) :laugh: color coding system:
    Screen shot 2018-04-23 at 2.16.51 AM.png Screen shot 2018-04-23 at 3.10.00 AM.png
    Anyway, GOBS of choices on this one, many in the "pretty good" or better range, I think. I think the best mastering of this song (as opposed to the "Nice 'n Easy" album) is on the 1991 UK (and Japan and Canada) 20 Golden Greats CD. Here's a clip. Notice something odd about that? It's the original mix, but the channels are reversed -- correctively?? -- to move the strings to the left. No other release of the original mix does that (to my knowledge).

    On LP, I'd go with the 1983 MFSL LP. (Clip here.) Strings are on the right.

    In terms of the assorted remixes, I think the best is the 1991 Larry Walsh mix, strings on the right. (Clip here.) I wish it were a little warmer/plusher, but it's a nice alternative to the wet, original stereo mix.

    LOTS of samples posted here: Non-Album Tracks, 1960 .
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
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  16. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I certainly don’t think it was meant for a single, Matt. It’s just not that kind of song. Perhaps this was a trial for a possible successor to FS Sings for Only the Lonely, which album was released the very week of this session.

    One story goes that Sinatra was looking for a new “saloon” song to sing in his live performances, along the lines of “One for My Baby” and “Angel Eyes,” both of which were recorded earlier in the year. The Bill Miller piano solo accompaniment at the beginning of “Where or When” fit the bill, but the big orchestral finale didn't. Frank is heard on the session tape during rehearsal warmups saying, “It doesn't sound like a saloon.”

    [ There’s some funny stuff on those “From the Vaults” session tapes: “It seems we stood and talked like this before… We threw up on each other in the same old way, but I can’t remember night or day.” :D ]

    Note: A prior (first?) attempt at this Nelson Riddle arrangement was made in Monte Carlo the previous June (as heard in the World on a String box set), just before the final Capitol sessions for OTL. It was now too late to put it on the album, but the ballad treatment may have still been on Frank’s mind, and he just wanted to get one of his favorites recorded? For whatever reason, it went unreleased and remained in the vault for another twenty years before turning up on the UK album, The Rare Sinatra.
     
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  17. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    But remember: “Mr. Success” appeared on Sinatra’s only Capitol STEREO EP.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Of course, but that whole series (it's barely even a series -- more of a half-baked idea that failed) strikes me as just being a thrown-together set of "whatever tracks we have lying about that might sell a few copies." The Sinatra title even had two album tracks on it.

    I'd put more money on it being recorded in stereo either because 1.) Where or When may be needed in stereo.....somewhere......(or somewhen....); or 2.) more likely, the session took place after word came down that "henceforth, thou shalt cover all sessions in stereo." The date of that happening seems not to be 100% set in stone, but I suspect that it hastened the transition from separate stereo and mono set-ups to a single 3-track set-up that could be used for mono and stereo, and that happened, it appears, sometime in the fall of 1958.

    The latest mono-only recording I've seen come out of Capitol is a Rudolf Firkusny recording from May of 1958. Steve Hoffman has posted that he thinks the memo about covering sessions in stereo came out in July of 1958:
     
  19. grumpy old man

    grumpy old man Forum Resident

    Sorry, little bit late. But in 2002 there was also that alternate session take 10 on the CD Romance: Songs From The Heart with strings on the left.
     
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  20. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Good catch. The date was 2007. Mastering by Dave McEowen.
     
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  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    I have added a separate entry for this version to the webpage: Non-Album Tracks, 1960 .
     
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  22. grumpy old man

    grumpy old man Forum Resident

    Matt, I'm a bit confused. All my Nice 'N' Easy session takes have the strings on the left. The source I've got them from is usually reliable. Do you have any explanation for that 'string shifting' from right to left or vice versa?
     
  23. Kill Uncle Meat

    Kill Uncle Meat Forum Resident

    Are the 87-91 individual CDs preferable to the 3CD set 'The Capitol Years' sound quality wise or is it the other way around? Or are they just the same?
     
  24. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
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  25. Kill Uncle Meat

    Kill Uncle Meat Forum Resident

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