Bruce Springsteen Hammersmith Odeon, London '75 Vinyl DR query

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by samtheman7373, Jul 7, 2018.

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  1. samtheman7373

    samtheman7373 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Hello,

    This is my favorite Bruce live recording but it has rather high dynamic compression on CD, FLAC etc.

    I'm considering buying the vinyl edition that came a few years ago. Does anyone own this and know if the DR ratings are better than the CD? Any feedback would be appreciated as I would be very upset if I purchased it to find it was essentially the same master.

    I have checked here and there is no DR score for the Vinyl edition:
    Album list - Dynamic Range Database

    Fingers crossed the vinyl is better :)
     
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  2. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    I don't know the DR values for the vinyl set, but what I can tell you is that on my system and with my ears the vinyl is a lot more dynamic, it is certainly not fatiguing on the ears like the CD is, it breathes and it has life, if that makes sense.
     
  3. samtheman7373

    samtheman7373 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Thanks hodgo - yes that certainly makes sense to me. Your comments echo the difference I hear between the CD and Vinyl version of Prince's Lotusflower album. Wouldn't dream of ever listening to the CD mastering again. Reckon a new vinyl purchase is in the cards :)
     
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  4. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    No problem, happy to help.

    You may want to hear the thoughts of a few others before taking the leap, because mine is only one opinion.
     
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  5. samtheman7373

    samtheman7373 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    good advice - will wait to see if anyone else chimes in. Thanks again :)
     
  6. budwhite

    budwhite Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.

    Location:
    Götaland, Sverige
    Do you have the DVD? How does the stereo PCM compare to the CD and Vinyl?
     
  7. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    My DVD rip has DR numbers between 9-11, and sounds nice, but I can't remember if I ripped the stereo or 5.1 track to make it. (Back before I could measure DR values in JRiver I just ripped both and kept the one that sounded better to my ears).
     
  8. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    I've finally got around to ripping my LP's so here are the DR values for both the CD and LP versions of Hammersmith.....

    CD

    foobar2000 1.5.4 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
    log date: 2020-10-14 19:31:34

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Analyzed: Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band / Hammersmith Odeon, London '75,
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    DR Peak RMS Duration Track
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DR11 -0.69 dB -14.95 dB 5:50 01-Thunder Road
    DR8 0.00 dB -8.68 dB 3:50 02-Tenth Avenue Freeze-Out
    DR7 0.00 dB -9.77 dB 7:36 03-Spirit In The Night
    DR7 0.00 dB -10.79 dB 6:15 04-Lost In The Flood
    DR7 0.00 dB -8.82 dB 5:23 05-She's The One
    DR6 -0.05 dB -7.44 dB 4:17 06-Born To Run
    DR8 -0.08 dB -13.02 dB 12:51 07-The E Street Shuffle Having A Party
    DR7 -0.05 dB -9.26 dB 5:28 08-It's Hard To Be A Saint In The City
    DR7 0.00 dB -8.70 dB 7:22 09-Backstreets
    DR8 -0.12 dB -9.75 dB 17:14 01-Kitty's Back
    DR8 0.00 dB -11.29 dB 9:36 02-Jungleland
    DR7 0.00 dB -8.63 dB 9:52 03-Rosalita (Come Out Tonight)
    DR8 0.00 dB -10.36 dB 7:03 04-4th of July, Asbury Park (Sandy)
    DR7 0.00 dB -8.76 dB 7:03 05-Detroit Medley
    DR11 -0.28 dB -16.85 dB 8:26 06-For You
    DR8 0.00 dB -9.04 dB 6:45 07-Quarter to Three
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Number of tracks: 16
    Official DR value: DR8

    Samplerate: 44100 Hz
    Channels: 2
    Bits per sample: 16
    Bitrate: 925 kbps
    Codec: FLAC
    ================================================================================

    Vinyl

    foobar2000 1.5.4 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
    log date: 2020-10-14 19:26:21

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Analyzed: Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band / Hammersmith Odeon 18th November 1975 (24-96)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    DR Peak RMS Duration Track
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DR13 -8.95 dB -24.95 dB 6:13 01-Thunder Road
    DR11 -6.04 dB -18.91 dB 3:51 02-Tenth Avenue Freeze-Out
    DR12 -5.51 dB -20.09 dB 7:32 03-Spirit In The Night
    DR11 -4.30 dB -21.22 dB 6:36 04-Lost In The Flood
    DR10 -6.02 dB -19.18 dB 5:23 05-She's The One
    DR10 -5.50 dB -17.74 dB 4:14 06-Born To Run
    DR12 -4.71 dB -23.12 dB 12:44 07-The E Street Shuffle
    DR11 -5.65 dB -19.51 dB 5:27 08-It's Hard To Be (A Saint In The City)
    DR11 -5.95 dB -19.01 dB 7:33 09-Backstreets
    DR12 -4.58 dB -19.84 dB 16:55 10-Kitty's Back
    DR11 -6.24 dB -21.55 dB 9:40 11-Jungleland
    DR11 -5.57 dB -18.89 dB 9:48 12-Rosalita (Come Out Tonight)
    DR12 -5.18 dB -20.61 dB 7:03 13-4th Of July Asbury Park (Sandy)
    DR11 -6.33 dB -19.00 dB 7:01 14-Detroit Medley
    DR12 -8.93 dB -28.03 dB 8:39 15-For You
    DR11 -7.23 dB -19.91 dB 6:44 16-Quarter To Three
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Number of tracks: 16
    Official DR value: DR11

    Samplerate: 96000 Hz
    Channels: 2
    Bits per sample: 24
    Bitrate: 2826 kbps
    Codec: FLAC

    Just in case anyone is interested I have uploaded the vinyl rip to the DR Database.....

    Hammersmith 75 (24/96 Vinyl Rip) Dynamic Range Database
     
  9. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    I'm without a scanner right now so I'm unable to scan the CD covers, does any one out there have any high res scans of the book, back inlay card and disc label they could send me please?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  10. JAuz

    JAuz Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I'd love to get this more dynamic version of Hammersmith such as is featured on the vinyl. Does anyone know if HDTracks, Qobuz or other hi-res sites offers it for sale?

    I'd also like Western Stars, which is on HDTracks. But how's the mastering on that one?
     
  11. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    As far as I'm aware with Bruce, vinyl is the only way to go for the more dynamic listening experience. As with the archive downloads he seems to like having all of his digital releases compressed to death.

    Here are the DR values for the High Res "Western Stars" HD Tracks download......

    foobar2000 1.4.4 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
    log date: 2019-06-14 02:36:01

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Analyzed: Bruce Springsteen / Western Stars
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    DR Peak RMS Duration Track
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DR9 -0.09 dB -11.56 dB 3:37 01-Hitch Hikin'
    DR7 -0.09 dB -10.22 dB 4:18 02-The Wayfarer
    DR6 -0.10 dB -8.06 dB 3:31 03-Tucson Train
    DR6 -0.09 dB -10.32 dB 4:41 04-Western Stars
    DR7 -0.08 dB -8.26 dB 3:14 05-Sleepy Joe's Café
    DR7 -0.09 dB -10.46 dB 4:17 06-Drive Fast (The Stuntman)
    DR7 -0.09 dB -10.53 dB 5:03 07-Chasin' Wild Horses
    DR7 -0.10 dB -8.76 dB 3:18 08-Sundown
    DR8 -0.10 dB -12.01 dB 1:53 09-Somewhere North Of Nashville
    DR7 -0.08 dB -9.16 dB 4:45 10-Stones
    DR6 -0.09 dB -7.69 dB 4:05 11-There Goes My Miracle
    DR6 -0.10 dB -8.35 dB 3:56 12-Hello Sunshine
    DR9 -0.10 dB -11.45 dB 4:16 13-Moonlight Motel
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Number of tracks: 13
    Official DR value: DR7

    Samplerate: 96000 Hz
    Channels: 2
    Bits per sample: 24
    Bitrate: 2793 kbps
    Codec: FLAC
    ================================================================================
     
  12. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    Your only options are vinyl, or (what I did) extract the audio from the DVD 5.1 track. It's AC-3 so it cuts off around 20khz, but I have to strain to hear it, so it's not too bad. It's a solid DR9-11 rating throughout. I'm a vinyl guy but the vinyl configuration is super awkward for this one and I decided I'd probably hardly ever play it, so I just stuck with my DVD audio rip.
     
  13. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    It can get frustrating changing sides with this one which is why I ripped mine and burnt it to a DVD Audio disc. That said, the sound quality of the vinyl is outstanding and without doubt the best way to hear this show.
     
  14. JAuz

    JAuz Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I think I tried this but on the stereo track, not the surround one. Maybe I'll try again.

    I would love to pay Bruce for this. Do you hear me Sony? I'll gladly pay (again!) for this if you'd make it available. I don't have a vinyl setup though.
     
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  15. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    Sony does not hear you. Otherwise I'd be able to get nice, dynamic digital versions of Pearl Jam albums and shows along with Springsteen stuff. Ain't gonna happen.
     
  16. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    Yeah, that's why I passed. I rip a lot of my vinyl to my media server, but $80 or whatever was a lot just to do that. Maybe if I have better job security and stumble on it at a bargain basement price.
     
  17. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    Yeah that's a lot to have to pay, thankfully I only paid £39 GBP for mine which works out at only £9.75 per LP.
     
  18. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    That's a great price. Another consideration for me is shelf space (and that we'll probably be moving a few more times in the next decade), so when I look at vinyl these days I'm like, "am I really gonna play this that much?") I dunno if I'll ever be settled enough again to just "buy stuff just to have it."
     
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  19. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    Yes that's a big problem for me too, in fact I'm in desperate need of more shelving but finding the space to accommodate it is not an easy task at all.
     
  20. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    I love the Ikea shelves, but there's only so much room in most urban apartments. The invention of streaming and massive hard drives (and ebooks) is the best thing that could've ever happened to me. I can focus more on vinyl that I really want and let go of a lot of albums I know I'm probably not going to play that much (Like, I'm a huge Cheap Trick fan, but do I need their entire 80's run on LP? Probably not).
     
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  21. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    I do buy some High Res downloads providing they are are mastered well, I store these on various hard drives which I then plug into my OPPO via USB and play through my hi-fi. Due to Covid my purchases of music have been curtailed for months now because I've had to help my son, his partner and baby who have been badly affected financially by the pandemic. The only upside to that is that I'm not buying anything so I can hold off on new shelving for quite some time.
     
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