Technics 1200G or Linn Sondek LP12

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Airbus, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Seattle area
    I agree that the arm cartridge pairing was probably sub-optimal. So that has almost certainly skewed the results. But I still was feeling rather bored by the sound of my OM-30 Super, which should be an excellent match for the arm. But since the reviews of the G stated that it could work so well with lower compliance cartridges, I had to see if the same was true of the GR. And FWIW: the alpha-genesis 1000 sounded a lot better than did the OM-30 Super. So it might not have been that bad of a match.

    I'm tempted to digitize some of my results I experienced before I return this beast, and post it somewhere so that others can hear what we heard. But my concerns about posting copyrighted material online are presently stopping me.
     
  2. DaveyF

    DaveyF Forum Resident

    Location:
    La Jolla, Calif
    What is a Radikal Majik Linn LP12??? Are you talking about a LP12 with the Majik subchassis and the Radikal D power supply..or are you talking about a LP12 with the Majik power supply, or are you referencing the Akurate level LP12?
    Usually, the LP12 with Radikal ( what level of Radikal? ) is the Akurate model or the higher spec Klimax model. Having heard a full spec Klimax model and owning an Akurate level LP12, and having extensively heard the Technics 1200G, I think it is like comparing a Ferrari to a Fiat ( The Linn is like the Ferrari, the Technics...the Fiat)...the Technics is not in that league at all, IMO. I guess if you were listening to an entry level MM Grado or something else of that ilk on the LP12 and then tried it on the Technics, maybe you could hear what you did...maybe??? Otherwise...Nah.
     
    Newton John and TarnishedEars like this.
  3. JoeSmo

    JoeSmo SL1200 lover....

    Location:
    Maidstone
    Specifics: Linn LP12 Majik, Radikal, Trampolin and t-cable. Obviously the Majik power supply was removed when the Radikal was installed.

    On the Linn forum this was reccomended to me as the biggest ‘single’ upgrade that could be done to the stock Majik, if I had the cash, by owners and dealers alike.

    Even an ex- Linn dealer, on their forum, recommended this as a step that would probably negate the desire to upgrade elsewhere, claiming in all the years of selling LP12’s he was never happier with the sound of his identicate LP12. The upgrades in total added another £3k to the £2700 I’d forked out for the original Majik LP12 14 months previously; twice the price of SL1200g in total.

    And yes, it was a huge improvement, night and day over the standard Majik LP12.

    But, the SL1200G is the better sounding turntable to my ears. I transferred the Linn Adikt cartridge to my SL1200G and it works beautifully with it.
     
    Andrew Littleboy likes this.
  4. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    I do see where you are coming from. My Oppo 205 does better low end information than the PLX 1000 (which is not far behind the GR from what I heard and comparisons in this thread). However no CD player quite gives the depth of sound of a half decent TT (16/44 resolution). If you want a deck that does that extra magic vinyl is capable off, while maintaining the things CD is excellent in accomplishing, you have to spend a lot more than the 1200GR. I expect the arm you are using on the LP12 costs more than the GR - just putting things into perspective. The aim of the GR was likely to better the old 1200II and derivatives at an affordable price. Not to give near 1200G performance on the cheap.
     
    displayname likes this.
  5. Drewan77

    Drewan77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK/USA
    As JoeSmo says "to my ears"*...

    We all listen to different combinations of equipment, different rooms, different seating positions, different preferences, different ears etc so not surprising we can have opposing opinions.

    (* as an aside, cup & push your ears forward while listening & see how much more detail & high frequency you hear compared to ears flatter to the head)

    I 'like' all the LP12s, Michells and Clearaudios I have owned or heard. I 'like' various Regas I have also owned, especially my RP10 hybrid but I prefer the SL1200G. In my system it is damn near perfect to my listening preferences but I have no issue with others who prefer something else.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  6. Drewan77

    Drewan77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK/USA
    But, from the listening I have done with both, I think it does.....
     
  7. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Your going to get me going on Linn pricing again. Just to say that for not a lot more than £2700 an Orbe SE comes with a large DC PS (using taco loop feedback for accurate speed stability). The basic design of Michell decks is far superior -notably the spring arrangement (which basically has not changed ever on the LP12). I can't recall hearing their current top model but those I have over the years did not outperform a Michell Orbe or Nottingham Hyperspace or even some of those makers cheaper decks.

    I would be surprised if the 1200G didn't sound as good or close but obviously a quite different presentation. That doesn't mean you won't prefer the LP12 sound if that is what you are accustomed too. So spending £x000s more on an Lp12 obviously makes a better Lp12 but it doesn't make an LP12 superior to other designs that cost less. There is not going to be a definitive answer here because none of us have likely heard all the alternatives in our own system plus personal preferences come into play. I think ease of set up and pricing become as important as the sound at this level. If you want best sound per pound and fuss free performance I would suggest Linn isn't the best choice.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
    JoeSmo likes this.
  8. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    You still paid for the 1200g so it must have sounded better. Do the comparison with a top MC cartridge in both through a top class phono stage. I would be surprised if differences aren't significant even if overall presentation is similar.
     
  9. Linto

    Linto Mayor of Simpleton

    The OP didn't mention price or value.
    He asked which one we prefer, I have heard loads of both in different variations.
    It's not even close. 1200 vs P6 would be a fairer comparison, or even P3
    That David Price has a lot to answer for!
     
    Newton John likes this.
  10. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    G and GR have different arms with different resonances. Avanti uses to say the GR is more sensitive to mismatch and I think he has a point.
     
  11. Erocka2000

    Erocka2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    I had a Linn LP12 with an Akurate Radikal, Ekos tonearm, and Khan top plate and to my ears, my Technics SL-1200G is a better sounding turntable.
     
    Andrew Littleboy, H8SLKC and JoeSmo like this.
  12. Upstateaudio

    Upstateaudio Senior Member

    Location:
    Niskayuna, NY
     
  13. Upstateaudio

    Upstateaudio Senior Member

    Location:
    Niskayuna, NY
    Thank you for the reassurances about my decision to buy the 1200GR. I was looking also at the Planar 6 (dealer just sold his demo and I just struggled with installing a cart upgrade) and the Oracle Origine ( loved the look and the sound, but realized it was probably too fidgety for where I'm at right now). The 1200 GR sounded great at the dealer even with a lesser cart without tweaking. Can't wait to take delivery. Hopefully, the tweak bug will not strike me again. Got to learn to just enjoy the music.
     
    Shawn, H8SLKC, ranch 22b and 2 others like this.
  14. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    The Oracle Origine is better now that it was when it was first released, but it's still not anywhere close to leading its price point/category. It should be competing head to head at its price point with models from Rega (P6), Clearaudio (Peformance), Pro-ject (Xtension II SB - a very, very good turntable and tonearm that doesn't get enough respect, IMO) and a couple of others. It's a competent table, but setup can be difficult (fidgety, just as you wrote) and I'm not personally happy with factory-level parts and assembly quality control. Oracle can and should do better. The Oracle Delphi (up to MK VI now?) is still in the high ranks of reference quality turntables. The Paris is very, very good too, and to my mind is also clearly better competition than the Origine for the SL1200G, Rega RP8, and the Linn LP12 Akurate. The Oracle Paris is an excellent turntable that competes head-to-head with the SL1200G.
     
  15. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Seattle area
    You probably won't believe me, but my (slightly modified) PS Audio Direct Stream DAC can actually do this with redbook. The depth I hear out of this DAC is truly astounding. My LP12 merely equals its depth on my system. Although I'm sure that with a better preamp it would probably exceed it.
     
  16. JoeSmo

    JoeSmo SL1200 lover....

    Location:
    Maidstone
    Classicrock, your post above had me checking the info on the Michell Orbe Se. You’re right, very impressive spec list for the money and one I’ve certainly overlooked! Curious to hear one now. DC tacho-speed checked motor included too and sprung deck, wow!
     
  17. Wngnt90

    Wngnt90 Forum Resident

    Your tuntable was designed and built as a hi-fi turntable first and foremost. It was adopted by broadcasters, dj's, and audiophiles because of build quailty, feature set and ruggedness.
     
    McLover, H8SLKC and Socalguy like this.
  18. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Hope this isn't derailing the thread, but some info from Linn Product Upgrade History.

    REGA 303
    David Williamson (2016-03-21) Wrote:We have tested a Rega 303 on an LP12, it doesn't even come close to the Project 9cc, let alone the Akito. It was setup with the same deck, power supply cartridge etc. - straight shootout. It just doesn't work.
     
    JoeSmo likes this.
  19. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    My turntable at the time I wrote that was a Pioneer PLX-1000 which is made for the DJ market.
     
    Drewan77 likes this.
  20. Dubmart

    Dubmart Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, England
    The Michell is a wonderful deck and fantastic value, it has superb synergy with SME arms; 309, IV and V, or if you are on a budget the Michell TechnoArm, in my opinion it beats both the Technics and the basic LP12 hands down, I love mine.
     
  21. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Does it convert everything to DSD? There are so many variables here. I don't regard Linn decks to be exceptional in soundstage width and depth. Many years ago going from a Linn Axis to a QC (AC) powered Gyrodec was a bit of a revelation. However your talking a pretty up market DAC there. I'm not saying digital can't do depth with modern DACs - an area in which significant improvements have been made.
     
  22. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    I think it has been widely known for years that Rega arms don't gel on Linn decks. They work great on Michell and Notts were mounting is more rigid. This doesn't mean the Project is superior or visa versa. I would likely put my money on a Rega in a non Linn context. I also see Regas on refurbed Thorens 160s and again I don't think it's the best fit (similar design via Ariston to Linn).
     
    Randoms likes this.
  23. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    I wonder where they got the RB303 tonearm? To the best of my knowledge, Rega has never offered the RB303 for sale - only pre-installed on a Rega turntable. If that’s correct, whoever tested the RB303 on a Linn LP12 would have had to make their own armboard or adapt an existing armboard; quite a challenge for the RB303 with its three point mount. No wonder it didn’t work well.
     
    Randoms likes this.
  24. Dubmart

    Dubmart Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, England
    Readily available over here for £350 or less, which is about what my RB600 cost around 15 years ago, there are also various armboards available for most popular decks although I don't know of any for a LP12, probably not too difficult to adapt a standard Rega armboard though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
    Randoms likes this.
  25. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Yes, it confirms my experience with the RB300 all those years ago. I offer no explanation and personally draw no conclusions about the relative merits of the arms on any other turntable.

    It is simply a very firm opinion regarding the performance of the Rega arm on a LP12, and may prevent someone from making the same mistake that I made.
     

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