Classical Corner Classical Music Corner

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, May 29, 2015.

  1. Octave

    Octave Shake Appeal

    I watched the Boulez DVD of FROM THE HOUSE OF THE DEAD just recently. Love that opera as I do most all Janacek, though I haven't yet acquired the taste for opera in performance on video, no idea why not. It's unexplored country for me.

    My recent interest in Schulhoff brought me to a reissue I'd not noticed at the time: a 2011 ECM box set of this series, or rather five discs' worth of it. A blurb I saw said that this set was distilled from "hundreds" of recordings. If ever the existence of a megabox was warranted!

    Listening now:

    [​IMG]
    Schulhoff: FLAMMEN (John Mauceri et al, Decca Entartete Musik Series, 1995)

    So far, kind of menacing, dreamlike, ceremonial.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
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  2. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    Well, most certainly Sigrid. Don’t think the chances are that high that both Sigrid and Sigfrid existed as pianists. The labels surely was thinking of Wagner when he typed those letters. Sigrid is a woman, btw.
     
  3. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    George- just wondering if you have any thoughts on Beethoven's Op 31/2 on the Marston Bolet Vol 2? For me this is one of the stand out works on that box.

    Any favorites from the Ernst Levy volumes?
     
  4. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    All of the Levy volumes impressed me. He is a special, unique pianist. Sorry, I can't single one out. I'd say pick the one with the repertoire that most interests you.

    I'll revisit that Marston performance and report back. By the way, his live performance of the Chopin preludes from this set is superb:

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    I agree! That ECM box is quite difficult to find and I wouldn't mind a reissue.
     
  6. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Thanks very much, I am always up for more excellent performances of the Chopin Preludes
     
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  7. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I checked it out again today. I find it incredible how well his gorgeous tone comes across, even in a poor recording like that. Overall, his playing has nice grace and beauty. Annie Fischer remains my favorite for this work, with Richter close behind. (I also enjoy Gilels, Gulda and Schnabel's Tempests)
     
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  8. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    It's no surprise that Annie Fischer and Richter are my two favorites for Tempest as well. Grace and beauty is how I would describe it as well, his pianissimo was particularly striking to me... when I played it a couple of days ago I was leaning closer and closer towards the end of the first movement. If by poor recording you mean it is mic'd toward the right side (noticed that is common on several of the live recordings from this set), I agree that is a shame though it doesn't bother me on speakers.
     
  9. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    By poor recording I meant very distantly miked.
     
  10. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    If I, although not George, may break in, the recording that "hooked" me on Levy was his account of the Hammerklavier, which I picked up as a curiosity on an old Kapp LP at a benefit sale. I agree with George that he's a special pianist indeed.

    If I may offer a couple of other recommendations for op. 31 no. 2, I particularly love Walter Gieseking's recording from the '30s and Cor de Groot's from the '50s.
     
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  11. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Ah I see. Compared to live Richter, Gilels and other Russian recordings I considered it genuine high fidelity ;) The right sided off mic'ing it what stood out to me.
     
  12. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Is it the performance on this Naxos disc? I'm normally not looking to add more Beethoven piano music, but IMO Ward Marston (along with Richard Caniell) transfers sound so good that I might be tempted to try. If it is that March 1931 recording would you mind saying what it is you like about it, as I'm unable to find a place to sample/stream it. Thanks.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  13. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    That's the one, originally issued as a two-record 78 RPM set (in the United States, Columbia set X-39). As I said long, long ago in a "Tempest" shoot-out here on the SH Forums (Classical artists blind comparison thread #4 (Beethoven-"Tempest" Sonata) ), I find it has a perfect blend of fire and poetry, although you should be forewarned that to keep within the bounds of what four 78 RPM sides could hold he cuts the repeat in the last mvt. For other participants' assessments of that recording and several others, you might like to have a look at the linked thread.
     
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  14. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I have that CD. I just checked out the Tempest on it. The transfers are, as expected, superb, revealing a wonderful tone. The interpretation is quite unique. He plays this faster than I have ever heard it played. To me, it sounds rushed and this rushed manner harms much of the beauty in the music.
     
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  15. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Oh woah, a blind comparison test, I'm in love :love:

    If I can pontificate for a bit, I think these are so invaluable to disposing of our natural biases both positive and negative since as humans (every single one of us!) we are so accustomed to forming them whether we know it or not. And why (thankfully) the back bone of modern medicine is based around randomized control trials, I'm an MD so blind testing is really dear to my heart! Or why the audiophile press is so terrified of them when it comes to things like equipment comparisons or hi-res vs redbook.

    Back to classical years ago I used to do these more often when I had more free time. The major revelation to me was realizing just how banal so many Alfred Brendel's recordings were; surely the great Philips house pianist who the critics adore couldn't have recorded this vast underwhelming output? But time and time again he came very close to last or dead last in my blind comparisons. And it only revealed itself to me when I didn't know I was listening to him. And of course it went the other way as well, where artists whom I had wrote off suddenly had performances that moved me quite a bit. Unfortunately with small kids it has been some time since I have done a blind comparison test, and these days I just leave it to listening to a performance and usually there is some time gap between hearing another interpretation.

    Thanks again for the impressions to you and George. I don't think this will be one for my tastes. If I do come across some place that can stream it I will have a listen. So far I have only found Napster which has about 10 seconds from each movement, not enough to form an opinion.
     
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  16. Marzz

    Marzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Oh my, what a nightmare! Hadn't realized it was that confusing although I did notice "Elliott Everet" (Eli Oberstein) as a performer? Hmm. I'm curious about the recording dates of your Royale 1762 record.
    Thanks very much for that interesting information!
     
  17. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I trust you hadn't heard Brendel's nickname prior to your blind comparisons? ;)
     
  18. Marzz

    Marzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Hey hvbias, are you aware of your mistype above - you typed Alfred Brendel when you probably meant M. Perahia :p. Just having fun of course, though I admit banal is a word I'd certainly never use to describe Brendel. Different tastes and all that, but I enjoy quite a few of his recordings.
    Anyway, for the Gieseking disc, I can help with longer samples if you like (I have that cd). Otherwise, Chandos offer about a minute or so. BACH, J.S.: Partitas Nos. 1, 5, 6 / Italian Concerto / BEETHOVEN, L. van: Piano Sonata No. 17,
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
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  19. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Well, I don't, and I find people who do an instant turnoff without further consideration.

    Uh, oh. :oops: ;)

    I got in a lot of trouble for saying this several years (and several iterations of this thread) ago, but I don't think his Philips records do Brendel justice. Having heard him in recital a couple of times, I came away deeply satisfied in a way I usually haven't with his records. For one thing, they tend to "dry out" his tone; to be honest, it wasn't exactly lush in the hall, but it was a good deal warmer than what I have heard from his Philips records.

    That's why I thought you might like to look at the old thread; I love the recording, but reactions from others were mixed. Probably a lot comes down to how you feel about tempo. In general, I like it on the faster side, whereas in this work, at least, George doesn't. Ultimately, a matter of personal taste--do you like Toscanini better, or Klemperer? That kind of thing.
     
  20. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I bet you'd love Josef Hoffman's Waldstein, or Gulda's Hammerklavier. Heard those? They're fast interpretations (though in Gulda's case he isn't faster than tempo, he simply does a better job than most at achieving it) and I very much enjoy both of them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
  21. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    Someone once said to me that this is not a "Brendel-friendly" thread, on the contrary. Well, I guess they were right. To each their own, of course, but to use the pejorative epithet "banal" goes a bit too far in my opinion.
     
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  22. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Thanks for posting that--quite a lovely performance, even if not the cleanest transfer, what with the blasting on peaks. I suspect her records aren't exactly thick on the ground, though, so very likely the only choice for a source was a worn copy or one originating as a dubious pressing (like Royale). Certainly it's good enough to show that she was a fine exponent of the older style of Chopin playing.

    For a pianist of her generation, that statement might actually approach defensible. Remember, for her Debussy and Ravel would have been "modern music." Not to mention that wild, crazy Austrian wacko, Mahler!

    What I found amusing in the article was that line about how she was married to the "world-famous conductor" Georg Schneevoigt. I had a similar double-take reaction when reading the artist capsule bios in the program booklet for a Mozart concerto recording by Elly Ney (US Victor 78 RPM set), in which the annotator blithely asserts something along the lines of, "The name Willem van Hoogstraten, of course, needs no introduction to music lovers, given his extensive contributions to our musical life."

    Somehow, I think if you were to say to the average, or even above-average, music lover today, "I particularly enjoy Willem van Hoogstraten's Mozart, although Georg Schneevoigt certainly is not to be missed," the result would be a positively thunderous ":confused:". :laugh:
     
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  23. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Hey, George, thanks for the tip. I'll put both on my "take a listen" list. As opposed to my "take a list" listen. Er. Um.

    In the Waldstein, I nurse a long-lived fondness for Guiomar Novaes in her recording for American Vox. The way she builds to the climax in the last mvt. reaches out and grabs me every time. Even though 3D movies hadn't been invented yet! ;)

    Incidentally, just to be clear, on average I prefer faster over slower, but that doesn't mean I can't love a slow performance if it is done right. One of the most intense performances I've ever heard was of the Appassionata in a recital by a pianist named Alexander Paley, who used to come here as part of a series sponsored for a few years by the local then-dealer for Bluthner pianos. He took it at maybe 2/3 the slowest tempo I've ever heard elsewhere, but the sense of concentration and power and accumulating tension were powerful, and when he cut loose launching into the final coda, it was positively overwhelming--until he pulled back again, darn it.

    Interesting pianos, Bluthners. My impression of the one featured in that concert series was of an instrument that, up to a point, just naturally gave the same kind of warm, glowing sound I so enjoy in older, pre-Horowitz recordings of the top-line pianists. Alas, beyond that point, when pushed too hard, it seemed to sorta run out of steam. In all events, interesting listening in its own right, leaving aside the (generally high) level of performances on offer.

    [Edit] I actually chatted with one of the pianists at intermission once and remarked on the lovely sound of the instrument. He had what I found a thought-provoking response: yes, the Bluthner gives a very beautiful sound, but the problem is, sometimes you want a sound that isn't beautiful, and you can't get that from the Bluthner. (Or words to that effect.)
     
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  24. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I will look out for that one. Serkin (mono) is my other favorite Waldstein.

    On the slow/fast thing, I generally have no preference for one over the other, provided I find the interpretation to be persuasive. Celibidache and Richter have some super slow recordings that I adore, while many other artists play stuff fast. Since we are discussing Beethoven, I do tend to prefer his stuff on the faster side (like Schnabel, Gulda and Annie Fischer), as it tends to heighten the drama, tension and youthfulness (in the early and mid periods) of the music.
     
  25. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    If you are referring to Hank Drake, then his blog was a much more recent find for me and would have predated my blind comparisons. I only found it after realizing many of his Amazon reviews lined up with my tastes and he used solid objective writing with use of pianistic descriptions over flowery prose. I do think his entry on Brendel was a bit too "savage" and very reaching in many places. I would instead use the more gentle term "piano instructor's pianist" as that is basically what I hear with not much depth outside of a few discs. If Brendel has some other nickname then I haven't heard it :D

    I have heard more Perahia discs that I like than not. I can certainly understand why someone wouldn't care for his playing. If it's alright I'll send you a PM.

    Are you referring to people that solely use blind comparisons a turn off or people that form opinions without them? If it is the former, my use of invaluable means I find them incredibly helpful but they have never been and never will be sole use of determining performance quality. One reason other than time I stopped them is it can cause burn out on piece(s).

    I have heard from one other piano lover that Brendel was much better live. I'll never write off musicians, I intend to continue listening to Brendel recordings I have not heard and see for myself what I think.

    I have no strong opinions on Toscanini outside of the 1939 Beethoven cycle (not including symphony 9) and his exceptional Brahms symphonies where he is very "un-Toscanini" favoring lyricism.

    I listened to Schnabel's Op 31/2, as usual a fine performance as expected from Schnabel. It personally wouldn't make my favorites. There some mention of Hofmann's Waldstein, from the Casimir Marston disc, I too think this is a fantastic performance!

    Now for a bit of symphony discussion- Ivan Fischer Mahler S3 which was one of the most recent of his Mahler recordings, I thought this was simply superb. It is what I would think a modern Bruno Walter recording would sound like; structurally flawless with lots emphasis on small detail without ever losing the big picture. With a single listen I am moving it into my reference list. And the recording quality might even be better than Abbado/Lucerne.

    [​IMG]
     

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