Better Call Saul - Season Four Discussion & Digestion

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by EVOLVIST, Jul 25, 2018.

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  1. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear.

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I guess I missed something or fell asleep at some point, but I am puzzled by Kim's apparent surprise at Jimmy's attitude at the end. She's been entirely complicit in Jimmy's scams. She's even turned on by them. So much so, she even came up with one of her own. She and Jimmy planned the elaborate scheme to hoodwink the disciplinary board. She coached Jimmy right before he appeared before the board, indicating it wasn't what he said but how he said it (more than suggesting that Jimmy needs an Academy Award performance for the coup de grace). Jimmy followed her advice well. He got off! He's ecstatic! She seemed happy, as well. Then she goes into shock, with the apparent explanation being that there's now this chasm between the two because she just realized that Jimmy isn't the man she thought he was. Really? Her "stage take" aside when Jimmy did his 180 about Chuck after Howard expressed he was guilt-ridden, what exactly is her confusion about who Jimmy is?

    The final scene is either ludicrous or there's more going on than her sudden realization that Jimmy's an effectively manipulative scam artist. I suspect the latter.
     
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  2. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    My take is that he did this completely behind her back. They were supposed to be a team, and he took it upon himself to pull the scam without including her, or telling her of his plans. Or that he was changing his name. I can see that coming as a bit of a shock.
     
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  3. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Kim loves Jimmy. Although she loves the scamming, like anyone in love, she needs to know that there is a warm blooded sincere person underneath the scamming persona. She needs to know that when the con is over, behind closed doors, she's dealing with the person underneath the mask, a person who is capable of returning the love and empathy that she has generously given herself. Otherwise, how could she trust or be in a relationship with a persona, a con man? She's been quite patient and understanding with Jimmy, I think. All the help and time she put in to help with his appeal wasn't to "win," it wasn't an ego thing, as it is for him. It is because she loves the guy, she truly cares about him. For him to reveal to her that there may not be a person underneath the mask, after all she has done for him, that has to be crushing.
     
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  4. stereoptic

    stereoptic Anaglyphic GORT Staff

    Location:
    NY
    I don't recall that situation. Which episode did Gus want one killed?

    The opening scene with Chuck and Jimmy was superb. I had a hunch that Michael McKeon would be back for another cameo, but didn't realize that it would be so powerful. No matter what went between them, and how big of a dicky douche Chuck could be they watched out for each other. Jimmy brought him his groceries and checked up on him every day when he had his electromagnetic hypersensitivity. It really wasn't until Chuck wouldn't bring Jimmy aboard HHM when he brought them the Sandpiper case.

    I think that Kim realizes now that Jimmy is toxic, and she may never be able to completely trust him. He never discussed changing his name with her and like someone mentioned above, the garage door closed shut when she heard that. He can never live up to the McGill name, and his name change will make sure it is not tarnished. I think that there is a little Jeckyl/Hyde as maybe Jimmy did really believe what he said to the board but was too ashamed that he showed his real feelings, so denied it all by claiming he was faking and fooled the a$$holes. As Jimmy he was truthful, as Saul he is conning.
    Another triumph for the photography in episode was the long shot of Mike shooting Werner against the inky black sky, with the flash of the gun and the trail of the bullet.
     
  5. adm62

    adm62 Senior Member

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Not written by Agnetha, but sung by her. A great great song.

    I thought it was a superb finale. Perfectly weighted.

    Not sure Lalo killed the kid, I think he just passed out through fear, he was on his way down.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
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  6. Tim S

    Tim S Senior Member

    Location:
    East Tennessee
    Lalo is a Salamanca - of course he killed the kid.

    I'll say this for him - he obviously inherited the Salamanca talent for brutality and recklessness, but he's the first one that seems to actually have some intelligence. He's also the only one of them that's ever cracked a smile - trouble is, he's the kind of guy where when he's smiling, he actually looks even more unhinged and dangerous.
     
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  7. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    I agree with most of this, but I think Kim has always been mystified at Jimmy's lack of a real emotional release regarding Chuck's death and she thought that's what that was in front of the board. Plus, after Jimmy's "I was sincere" plea to her last week when he was rejected and then his con last night, she has to be wondering now if he is ever sincere.
     
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  8. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    Oops, you're right, it was written by Björn Ulvaeus and Benny Andersson, which makes it all the more heart wrenching for Agnetha to sing. Absolutely fantastic song and well chosen for the show.
     
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  9. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    I think it will be the opposite, next season kim/saul are living apart, not talking. the Mesa Verde plan chicanery gets found out and she has to call saul to get her out of the jam....or maybe he finds out and decides to help her

    yeah that's my main issue. I think maybe they thought she'd be so convinced by his impassioned speech that she would forget all of the past and in the moment still believe it? it didn't ring true for me.
     
  10. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    There was blood splatter on Lalo's face. Fred is dead.
     
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  11. Thomas D

    Thomas D Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bradenton, FL
    It was the sinister attitude leaping out from Gus that Mike must have noticed when talking with him in "Coushatta", after Werner talked at that bar. Even the way Gus said "Good" at the end of the conversation had some noticeable implications if Mike was wrong in his assessment of Werner. And also the sinister attitude in the final episode when Mike and Gus were talking in that car. Mike, knowing a bit about Gus, clearly picked up Gus' obvious vibe on this, and spent some time trying to talk him down on those occasions.

    This is my favorite season by far, largely because Chuck was mostly gone from it. Coushatta and Something Stupid were the best episodes. The song at the beginning of the finale was mediocre but the lyrics suited the situation pretty well, so it is worth suffering through. I'm not a big fan of this song but I think about 5 or 6 of their hits are outstanding.

    And I do believe Chuck's genuine attitude of caring and affection for Jimmy was inconsistent with his previous attitude of reluctant tolerance (the flashback this season to the mail room, "Rebecca ep. in an earlier season, e.g.), and also his expressions last season indicating long-time lack of care (e.g., "I never gave much thought of you", etc.). So I kept thinking that it must be a dream Jimmy's having of the way he wished it could have been, but it wasn't.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
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  12. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    I think the general consensus, stated by various posters in various forms, is that every con was fairly hunky dory to Kim, until it was Kim who got bilked.

    Remember, just days before Jimmy's disciplinary hearing Kim and Jimmy argued, and then Kim came back into the fold. Jimmy fake-cried at Chuck's grave, and Kim was okay with that. At the hearing, on the other hand, Jimmy didn't know it, but Kim had cried, too. When they left the courtroom Jimmy basically exclaimed how dull and simple the fools were to cry at his total scam. Not only did that mean that Kim wasn't in on it, but to make her feel more like an outsider, Jimmy lumped her in with the lumpkins. I'm sure that it felt like Jimmy had defiled their partnership; what's more Kim might have realized that she could never be at Jimmy's level, but also that Jimmy could use that leverage against her at any time. It's a big warning.

    What makes the situation even more sad to me is...

    1.) Jimmy didn't mean to hurt her. He was oblivious that it even happened. "A chimp with a machine gun."

    2.) Jimmy showed the audience, but not Kim, that he shed real tears over Chuck's death. He finally broke down, yet Kim would never know it. (Still to be seen.)

    3.) The audience knows what Chuck's final words to Jimmy was. He never told Kim. She might not ever find out about that, either.
     
  13. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    One another note...

    I could be reading too much into it, though perhaps not...but a good 9 months had passed between Howard and Jimmy's falling out. By all appearances it seemed like HHM was back in the saddle, as if Jimmy's bold advise to Howard had paid off. Howard even appeared genuinely indulgent of Jimmy's recommendation to reconsider the young lady's candidacy for a scholarship. Howard praised Jimmy. I don't believe that was false. If Howard had, indeed, been able to right the firm, Howard knows where the spark came from.

    Not only that, but the portrait of Chuck hanging on the wall couldn't have been inexpensive.

    I really liked this season. I'm compelled to submit a guitar player analogy, that the first 3 seasons were more like Richie Blackmore, steady as she goes, while Season 4 was more Alex Lifeson: all angular chords and odd phrasing. I love to hear both of those dudes jamming in a band.
     
  14. Tim S

    Tim S Senior Member

    Location:
    East Tennessee
    I would have liked to have seen more of Howard this season - I thought we were going to. There's only so much screen time to go around - I feel like there was more story there to be told. Many people don't like how much time was devoted to the lab construction plot - I liked it, myself - but there are probably other parts of the story that suffered because of it - Howard and Nacho, among others. And now we got Lalo, so I guess some things are just going to fall by the wayside.
     
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  15. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    It has to do with Chuck. Though Kim does indeed get excited by the scams, they usually involve the unattatched. People that neither Jimmy nor Kim could care less about. But this thing with Chuck is something Kim sees as Jimmy going from calculated near genius scams to a completely detatched and heartless act. That Jimmy scares her.

    And, yes, she got scammed also. But I dont think she was so much hurt by being part of the people Jimmy was scamming as much as she was appalled by how heartless and cold Jimmy has became (though he has really always had it in him) concerning even the deepest of emotions concerning his dead brother. I dont think Kim has ever bought Jimmy's non-caring attitude concerning Chucks death. She forgave a lot of what he has said and done thinking Jimmy's actions are based upon some hidden grief. She finally sees, as do we, Jimmy's heart has basically froze.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  16. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    I think they will all connect.
     
  17. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    I was gonna post the same thing
     
  18. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    Then how does one explain Kim being okay with Jimmy feigning woe at Chuck's grave, yet not being okay with Jimmy playing the grief stricken brother at the hearing?
     
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  19. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic

    She was in on that one.

    This time, she’s upset that she herself fell for the scam.
     
  20. Brian_Svoboda

    Brian_Svoboda Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    Contrast Chuck’s performance with the visible pride of the first sponsor and the “pleasure” voiced by the other two sponsors. He “vouches” for Jimmy like he’s in a hostage video, and he makes sure to mention his own status as senior partner. It’s yet another middle finger to his brother, another deposit into the Resentment Bank, and an example of really subtle writing and acting that makes this show top-notch.
     
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  21. Brian_Svoboda

    Brian_Svoboda Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    One other thought on an excellent finale: is it just me, or does Lalo remind you of Kevin Kline’s Otto from “A Fish Called Wanda?” Stymied in the parking lot, running amok in the money store, his aggression all too easily trumps reason, even while lacking Tuco’s chemical explanation for that same phenomenon. Lalo seems capable on the outside, but he is not exactly Sherlock Holmes’s smarter brother, and up against Gus and Mike, I wouldn’t sell him term life insurance.
     
  22. stereoptic

    stereoptic Anaglyphic GORT Staff

    Location:
    NY
    Yep. Gus Fring and the building of the lab are important as they parallel the Jimmy/Saul development. We will find out how Saul gets involved in the business and the money laundering. Mike is the link.
     
  23. adm62

    adm62 Senior Member

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I missed that.

    Yes, we have her ex (co-) writing her a song to sing about the breakdown of their relationship from her point of view ...
     
  24. Strummergas

    Strummergas Senior Member

    Location:
    Queens, NY
    My take on this is that Kim and Jimmy devised a plan together for getting the board to reconsider Jimmy's reinstatement, and yes, it did involve bringing Chuck into it. At that point she's accepted that Jimmy doesn't appear to be at all upset or affected by Chuck's death, and while that bothers her, she continues her relationship with Jimmy anyway and will do almost anything to help him.

    But then Jimmy goes off script by cutting short the reading of Chuck's letter. Kim is shown to be irked by this; implying her disappointment in what she thinks is Jimmy's pride for not wanting to use Chuck's death to his advantage (and to give the board what they want) but also for messing up the plan they both worked together to come up with. But after he stops reading the letter, he gives what appears to be a heart-felt speech about Chuck, his greatness as person and a lawyer, and how while he could never ever live up to the McGill name, he would do his damnedest to try. Jimmy's emotional detachment to Chuck's death has long bothered Kim, but at this moment, it seems to her that he's finally showing emotion over the loss of Chuck. So to go from thinking that he's finally turned a corner in this regard(and for that moment, Kim probably loves him even more) only to find out that not only was it a cunning con to get the board to change their decision, but that he is STILL not showing any kind of emotion over the loss of his brother, and in fact making her feel stupid for even thinking he could must have been quite the blow to her.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
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  25. I'm surprised Mike didn't kill Gus instead of taking out Werner. Obviously that couldn't have happened with BCS being a prequal (and we all know who can't get killed due to storyline), but knowing Mike's character I could see it going in a different direction than what played out.
     
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