Peter Gabriel - Best Digital Masterings?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by tlake6659, Dec 22, 2008.

  1. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    Yes, I agree that was the original intention.

    I've just compared the UK original to the Japan Black Triangle and here are my thoughts.
    The Japan is definitely from a tape that is not as close to the original as the UK.
    I have to turn it up and up - nearly to 12 0'clock - and the sound is smooth as silk and the bass is prodigious.

    The UK is much more clear, with the vocals being almost too much in front, yet it has even more bass.
    The "clarity" or brightness is almost too much. The lower freq's, while big, are easily obscured by the brightness.
    When they first said this album would challenge your system, they weren't kidding.
    But that's just the way it sounds on my system. Using the Oppo 105. Your's may tell a different story.
     
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  2. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    I agree with your characterization of the sonics, absolutely.

    At the same time, the Japan CD certainly has to be turned up, but its ReplayGain value - and therefore its loudness/volume level - actually is the same as the UK/Holland Virgin/Charisma. (In fact, ReplayGain says the Japan is actually 0.2dB louder). So I would guess that the superior smoothness of the Japan makes it more crankable as a benefit, but also probably makes it need to be more cranked up for full impact. Conversely, the V/C's detail and transient impact makes it more impactful as a benefit, but also when cranked as much as the Japan it can sound louder because of the brightness you mention.

    Finally, I'm not saying I disagree with you about tape sources per se, but upon first listen I'm not sure I heard definitive signs of the Japan CD using a higher-generation tape source. I don't recall hearing extra tape hiss, distortion, or fuzziness in the sound. I get what you are saying - the smoothness of the sound can itself be a major sign of a copy tape. So you might be right. But I don't know - generally my CDs that are made from copy tapes have a dullness to them, and to my ears the Japan CD in this case has a lushness and cleanness to it that I don't associate with a copy tape. It could instead simply be attenuation of the upper midrange and other frequencies by whomever did the mastering job in Japan.

    Finally, the thing that I really love about the Virgin/Charisma is that "even more bass" that you mentioned. The Rhythm of the Heat has a rhythmic drive to it that no other CD version seems to have - the big but tight and narrow-frequency bass of the V/C version just drives this song forward.
     
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  3. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    Yes. And I think the UK orig is the most challenging of all the versions I've heard. Some might call it brightness, but if you have the system and speakers it just might be the best. My thoughts on the Japan are that it's just more soft overall. The whole thing. That makes me think it's from a higher gen tape.
     
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  4. Yost

    Yost “It’s only impossible until it’s not”

    Are we talking about 4/Security here???
     
  5. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    Yes.
     
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  6. Yost

    Yost “It’s only impossible until it’s not”

    Okay, great. I own the Black Triangle. Like it very much. I've only compared it to the 2002 remaster (I think).
     
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  7. Mbe

    Mbe Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Image showing the 97.7% plateau from PGCD 4 (NL) T1 – The Rhythm of the Heat
    [​IMG]
     
  8. deredordica

    deredordica Music Freak

    Location:
    Sonoma County, CA
    I have a couple of early PG CDs with 'pictures' on the disc; PGCD1, for example, has the 'car' image on the disc itself, and says 'Made in Austria'. What's up with that? Was there an earlier release? Is this one remastered? It sounds virtually identical (to my ears, in my car) to the Atco disc.
     
  9. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    DADC Austria pressed picture discs, from the Nineties.
    They should use the latest V/C masterings.
     
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  10. C6H12O6

    C6H12O6 Senior Member

    Location:
    My lab
    Quick question, was there only one mastering of the old Shaking the Tree CD? I have the BMG club CD, but if I want an older mastering, is that the one to have (or rather the only one you can have)?
     
  11. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    I think I remember a thread speaking about some issues with some manufactures.
    Mine was fine, an old 1990 US JVC
    It was remastered as part of the 2002 campaign. (to be avoided) IMO
     
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  12. Musicisthebest

    Musicisthebest Exiled Yorkshireman

    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    I own a Virgin PGTVD 6 which is the oldest master dated 1990. I can't see your version on DISCOGS so I don't know how old your version is. Even if yours is an early master, if it was issued in the States then it could well be different to the Virgin PGTVD 6.
     
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  13. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    The BMG club more than likely uses the standard US.
     
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  14. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    Most likely it's a unique mastering.
     
  15. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    US-1990
    DR13 0.00 dB -15.52 dB 4:21 01-Solsbury Hill
    DR13 0.00 dB -15.62 dB 3:48 02-I Don't Remember
    DR12 -0.64 dB -14.61 dB 4:56 03-Sledgehammer
    DR12 -1.61 dB -19.29 dB 4:25 04-Family Snapshot
    DR11 -1.23 dB -17.06 dB 4:44 05-Mercy Street
    DR14 -0.58 dB -16.63 dB 6:24 06-Shaking The Tree
    DR12 -2.01 dB -16.48 dB 5:56 07-Don't Give Up
    DR12 -0.82 dB -18.90 dB 6:41 08-San Jacinto
    DR15 -2.96 dB -22.37 dB 4:31 09-Here Comes The Flood
    DR10 -1.84 dB -14.40 dB 5:36 10-Red Rain
    DR15 0.00 dB -18.06 dB 3:57 11-Games Without Frontiers
    DR13 -0.55 dB -15.93 dB 3:57 12-Shock The Monkey
    DR12 0.00 dB -14.07 dB 3:45 13-I Have The Touch
    DR12 0.00 dB -14.62 dB 4:26 14-Big Time
    DR11 -1.41 dB -16.28 dB 2:59 15-Zaar
    DR12 -0.47 dB -15.68 dB 6:55 16-Biko
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
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  16. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    Which seems to match the Virgin PGTVD 6 version: Album details - Dynamic Range Database
     
  17. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    Yes - except for Don't Give Up, for some reason: DR12 on the US, whereas the DR Database Virgin listing shows that track as DR11.

    If I had to lay odds, I'd bet the two masterings are indeed the same, and that 1dB DR difference on that one track is just some kind of quirk (rounding error/difference from a level-shift or something like that).
     
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  18. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    Matt wasn't there an indexing issue on some of these?
    I wish I could recall that old thread. I remember someone commenting about a problem.
     
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  19. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    Could be - I've never followed mastering threads about this CD. If there was an indexing issue, that easily could explain the DR difference there.
     
  20. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    There are some tiny differences between c-eling's numbers and those listed for the US version too: Album details - Dynamic Range Database
     
  21. Time Is On My Side

    Time Is On My Side Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, WI
    What are peoples' thoughts on the Mastered For iTunes versions if I don't mind 256k AAC?
     
  22. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    They are the 2015/16 remasters, similar, but slightly better than the 2002 remasters.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  23. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product

    I was happy with the sacd's
     
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  24. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    They're really not bad.
     
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  25. JeffMo

    JeffMo Format Agnostic

    Location:
    New England
    Question that I have always wondered about - were BMG and Columbia House CDs inferior to standard retail. I assumed back in the day they were from inferior sources/masters. Is that true?
     

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