Why are the Early 60's so Disliked?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by bosskeenneat, Feb 6, 2015.

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  1. The shortest span of age demographic that qualifies as a "generation" is 18 years. Hence, 1946-1964.

    I subjectively notice what I would term "fault lines of experience" in the "youth culture" about every 3-4 years within that 18-year time frame. Incidentally, 3-4 years is the timespan of a given cohort in high school or college undergraduate years, from freshman to senior. Four years also denotes the time span of one Presidential term, which has historically had some rough semi-association with shifts in social attitudes and cultural mores in the USA.

    The outward and downward spread of Illegal Dope over the 10-year period between 1965 and 1975 was a huge factor, too: outward, from California, the college campuses of the Northeast, and the largest American cities- and the "Indochina theater of war", so to speak- c.1967 to the entire rest of the USA by 1975; and even more significantly, from graduate students and post-college age "beatniks" and "hippies" to college undergrads, c.1964-1967; from college undergrads- and Vietnam vets- to high school kids (aka "teenyboppers", in the argot of the day) 1967-1975; high school kids down to junior high kids, 1968-1975. Mostly about older brothers turning on their younger siblings.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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  2. spherical

    spherical Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    Of course the "Wall Of Sound" is dated. How could it not be? It was of its time. In a great way. Other early sixties music that flourished, and was also "dated", was surf instrumentals, R&B, terrific pop vocals, Bossa Nova, early Motown. All terrific music, and all dated. Nothing wrong with that, right? Absolutely essential and critical watershed movements in jazz were also happening in early sixties, although, I hesitate to call that "dated". Does that make sense? Seems like the jazz stuff doesn't sound like one specific time-frame, but sounds like forever, could have been done currently.
     
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  3. Dylancat

    Dylancat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    Thé definition of the word “dated” does include negative connotations.
    And that term is used so often and loosely...
    But yes, obviously all music is of its time and period...
     
  4. Dylancat

    Dylancat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    It was a great era.
    Please read my previous posts regarding R&B.
     
  5. JoeF.

    JoeF. Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    You're right of course, but of some of the other types of music you mentioned--surf instrumentals, Bossa Nova etc.--elements of these never really went away and thus sound a bit less dated. For instance, you'll hear surf tone guitar or a Bossa Nova beat on modern songs--think of Beck and people like him--who always rummage through the warehouse of used riffs, beats, sounds and tone of pop music's past.
     
  6. drad dog

    drad dog A Listener

    Location:
    USA
    There were great black records on either side of this era, maybe greater, so I don't see it as exceptional.
     
  7. Dylancat

    Dylancat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    Sorry....but
    Ray Charles
    James Brown
    Sam Cooke
    Jackie Wilson

    ARE exceptional.
    Please read my previous posts.
    In them
    I recommend some CDs and collections that will aid in learning about and appreciating this era...
     
  8. As far as the "Motown Sound" is considered, it had started in the late-50's. Berry Gordy was behind artists like Marv Johnson and Tamla Records was in it's infancy. I believe Phil Spector's 'wall-of-sound' was influential to Berry Gordy and created Motown's 'over-production' recordings, which proceeded, undaunted, from the early-1960's onward. Phil Spector's 'wall-of-sound' was timeless and influenced music long after Philles Records was no more. Phil Spector was brought in to straighten out the Beatles, adding his signature production to "Let It Be". He also worked with the individual Beatles, like John Lennon and George Harrison on their solo projects. Could you possibly picture the "Imagine" or the "All Things Must Pass" albums withouth the 'wall-of-sound' treatment?
    As far as the the 50's rock and popular artists were concerned, many also soldiered on. Pop artists like Sinatra, Bennett and Mathis continued creating new records throughout their lifetimes and sold tons of records, in spite of the British Invasion. Elvis Presley continued to have hit records, even the time he was in the military, through stockpiled recordings, and as soon as he returned to the U.S., he hit the ground running.
    Though it is true that the U.S. rock 'n' roll artists went through a lull during the early part of the British Invasion, it only took a short while before U.S. artists were a chart staple once again.
    American artists, who had no foreign competition, like the Beach Boys, the Four Seasons plus Jan & Dean continued to successfully make records and only suffered from their own actions or unexpected occurrences.
    From the late-50's into the 1970's was the heyday of the studio musicians, making millionaires out of many young people. If their was a dislike of American music in the early-60's, nobody told them. The studio musicians were in such demand that they could work around the clock. Many newcomers flocked to L.A. from the late-50's-on to satisfy the need for studio musicians. Many of these studio musicians became hit artists themselves, like Glen Campbell, in spite of the British invasion.
    So, no, there was no dislike of early-60's American music. That was the music that even many in the British Invasion looked to for inspiration.
     
  9. akmonday

    akmonday Forum Resident

    Location:
    berkeley, ca
    I don't know about the OP's assertion; this entire era is ruled by Motown and Phil Spector and I don't know anyone who dismisses their importance or influence, even if some of the people involved (Ike Turner, Berry Gordy, Spector) are personally reviled.
     
  10. drad dog

    drad dog A Listener

    Location:
    USA
    How many of these artists best work was in 1960-1963? I celebrate them but I don't focus on that period. My main point is that no one was immune from market pressures, yes, even these people.
     
  11. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia

    :confused:
     
  12. dmiller458

    dmiller458 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midland, Michigan
    Sam Cooke, the Everly Brothers, Ray Charles, Jackie Wilson, and Roy Orbison had many of their bigger hits during that period.
     
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  13. drad dog

    drad dog A Listener

    Location:
    USA
    People got rich being session musicians? Also how would any US band looking for a hit not have foreign competition under the conditions of a British Invasion?

    At the time Philadelphia was a dominant center for pop records because of Dick Clark, and cameo parkway and other labels. This is what people usually mean when they revile the early 60s, and the fabs and other brit musicians were among them. (John Lennon thought Elvis had been emasculated in the Army btw.) Phil Spector is another kind of animal of course.
     
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  14. Beattles

    Beattles Senior Member

    Location:
    Florence, SC
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  15. drad dog

    drad dog A Listener

    Location:
    USA
    Those two are the most credible movements on the scene at that time, to us now looking backwards. But to say they "ruled", might involve some confirmation bias. There was a lot of garbage that was played more often and louder, that seemed to characterize the era for many including a lot of musicans I'm sure. As a producer I don't think Phil lasted very long into the beatles era. RD/MH was in 1966. So he was feeling the heat. I like the motown stuff that came when they were competing with the english.
     
  16. Siegmund

    Siegmund Vinyl Sceptic

    Location:
    Britain, Europe
    There's a simple explanation: what came after made them sound dull and unimaginative.
     
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  17. Dylancat

    Dylancat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    By your statements, it indicates that you are not familiar with this period of R&B, or the time frame in general...
    You state you “don’t focus” on this period.
    Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, etc. finest work was at this time.
    Others have noted Roy Orbison, Everly Bros., Chuck, etc.
    Cant forget Blues greats Jimmy Reed, Bobby “Blue” Bland.
    Betty Everett, Doris Troy, girl groups, Motown girl groups like Marvellettes, etc.
    Surf music too!

    As I stated earlier, I have provided some sources in this thread to explore this music.
    This would alleviate all misperceptions.
    But most of all
    Learn, Appreciate, and Enjoy.
     
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  18. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Dion churned out some of his bet solo stuff in the early 60's. check the charts, its not like it was a wasteland of nothingness
     
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  19. drad dog

    drad dog A Listener

    Location:
    USA
    I listen to it all. I don't go for electric blues too much, even by americans.

    It is the period when Ray crossed over and had hits that were monsters, and he became an institution. But it's not necessarily his best. (Atlantic?) Sam also crossed over, and his biggest successes are in this period. But these two artists were not on the future edge of R and B. They were more like musical civil rights pioneers, making inroads into the integration of the culture. That is a great thing and maybe the era should be known for this. But music writers are not going to be in a frenzy over that. They did over R&R in 1956, and they did over the beatles in 64, but the era in between didn't have one headline you could give it. Or if you did, it was going to be the "Philadelphia sound." Maybe that wasn't fair.
     
  20. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product

    The Early sixties is great. I think folks just forget about it, because such a big deal is made of the late sixties.
     
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  21. I guess that you never heard of "The Wrecking Crew"? Getting paid $100.'s per recording session with multiple sessions in a day and 7 days a week adds up. If any didn't become millionaires, it was due to poor money management. Heck, they used to sign up to go on tour with a feature artist for a vacation. Drummers like Hal Baine and Frank Capp double-dipped as being musician contractors as well as musicians at the sessions.If you listen to most any popular recordings of the 1960's or 70's, you are hearing members of "The Wrecking Crew". Those bunch of guys were the musicians on the first couple of Byrds albums. Tommy Tedesco taught them how to play the twelve string guitar. Remember the Monkees? Guess who played the instruments on most of their recordings? How about the Ventures? They were constantly touring so the records were done by studio musicians, just like Gary Lewis & The Playboys and Herb Alpert & The TJB.

    Groups like the Beach Boys, Jan & Dean and the Four Seasons had a sound that the British Invasion didn't attempt. The Beatles and Brian Wilson with the Beach Boys had mutual admiration with each other. Heck, the Beach Boys "Pet Sounds" album was the inspiration to the Beatles for their "Sgt. Pepper's" album. The closest the British came to emulating that U.S. "surf" sound was all the way into 1974 with the U.K. studio group The First Class. The vocals featured Tony Burrows, who also fronted many other British studio groups and had quite a few hits on both sides of the pond.
    As far as the "Philly" sound, not including the later R&B recordings, the Cameo-Parkway recordings were always popular and never ceased to be in demand, although the recording artists fell out of favor with the American public for newer recordings. Their fan base was that which was taken over by the British Invasion. The Cameo-Parkway organization succumbed to the British Invasion because they couldn't keep up. They introduced British groups like the Kinks, but they had a style different than other British groups and it wasn't until Reprise picked up the Kinks did they become popular here. This could be due to a bigger organization behind the group with better promotion. Near the end, Neil Bogart took over Cameo-Parkway and had some success, but then he went on to Buddah Records and introduced 'bubblegum' which steered the teen crowd away from the Brits.
    Cameo-Parkway records were always in demand and after Allen Klein of AKBCO bought the recordings, even though busy with the Rolling Stones and the Beatles Spector sessions, ABKCO continued to re-issue Cameo-Parkway singles and compilations. For some reason, ABKCO refused to take Cameo-Parkway into the CD realm. Aside from the Stones, ABKCO stayed out of CD's until the Phil Spector "Back To Mono" box came out. Then Brit groups like, Herman's Hermits and The Animals made it to CD. People had been hounding ABKCO for years to release the Cameo-Parkway recordings, but it wasn't until after Allen Klein died that they finally came out with comprehensive compilations on CD.
     
  22. Dylancat

    Dylancat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    So you’re also not familiar with electric blues either.
    That’s fine.
    Different strokes , different folks.
    This period of music just ain’t your bag..
    (Don’t know what “music writers” frenzy is all about, but that’s ok too)
     
  23. Timeless Classics

    Timeless Classics Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I love the early 60s, but it was definitely a transition period in terms of rock and from doo-wop to the motown sound. I became more appreciative of this era of music after researching for an Elvis Presley Gold Records Vol 2 (released Nov. 13, 1959) review that I wrote up:

    "In terms of musical history and the ever-evolving sound of rock ‘n’ roll, this album would be one of the last great rock albums that defined the sound of the 1950s and serves as a homage to the music that was. Patrick Humphries notes that by the time of this release, “Elvis was already out of sight, far away in Germany doing his military service – but back home in America, things were fast getting out of control in the rock ‘n’ roll firmament...There was no denying the fact that with Elvis away, rock ‘n’ roll had entered the doldrums – and that lethargy would continue to dog it until the breakthrough of the fact that with Elvis away, rock ‘n’ roll had entered the doldrums – and that lethargy would continue to dog it until the breakthrough of the Beatles half a decade later. Of course, the period between Elvis’ army service and the outbreak of Beatlemania did contain some great one-off singles – courtesy of Phil Spector and Berry Gordy to name but two; but the threat that rock ‘n’ roll had posed since Elvis’ breakthrough in 1956 now seemed strangely eviscerated. It became clear that Elvis’ army haircut had taken away more than just his famous sideburns. In the two years during which Elvis had been away on duty, a whole host of lesser talents had plugged the gap. Rock ‘n’ roll had been further emasculated by Chuck Berry’s imprisonment in 1959. Buddy Holly had established himself as one of the prime movers of rock ‘n’ roll. Buddy had been an enthusiastic member of the audience when Elvis had breezed through Lubbock, Texas just four years before, but by the age of 21 the myopic Holly had enjoyed big hits of his own, with classics like “Oh Boy,” “Rave On,” “That’ll Be The Day,” and “Peggy Sue” to his name. As the 50s drew to an end his pioneering use of strings on “It Doesn’t Matter Anymore” would suggest something of a new direction for rock ‘n’ roll; but by then Buddy himself was already gone, killed in a plane crash on Feb. 3, 1959, along with the Big Bopper and Ritchie Valens. In 1960, a car crash took the life of Eddie Cochran and injured Gene Vincent. Little Richard virtually disappeared from the music scene and limelight for religion. A scandal broke out when the public discovered Jerry Lee Lewis married his 14 year-old cousin. The sound of rock ‘n’ roll from the 50s would be no more, as new artists named Dylan, McCartney, Lennon, Jagger would take over the airwaves. Motown would be introduced as well. Just five months after Elvis flew home from Germany in March 1960, the Beatles made their first appearance in Hamburg. In the famous lyrics of Bob Dylan, “The Times They Were A Changin.”
     
  24. Dylancat

    Dylancat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    Elvis had GREAT singles during this period also...
     
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  25. Timeless Classics

    Timeless Classics Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    He sure did, but they were a different sound compared to his 50s material.
     
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