The Searchers and how how did Kapp get all those stereo mixes?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by empirelvr, Aug 23, 2013.

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  1. GroovinGarrett

    GroovinGarrett Mrs. Stately's Garden

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    "Love Potion Number Nine" was issued as a single due to radio demand. As it was an older album track, it first appeared on the reissue imprint, as to not compete with their current release (which I believe was "When You Walk In The Room", Kapp # 618).
     
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  2. Steve:

    I have this Kapp LP in mono. I can do a needle drop of it if you would like. How would you like me to send you the files and in what format?

    Rick K.
     
  3. william r small

    william r small Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cleveland, OH

    Then maybe ‘Bumble Bee’ was issued with a “Winners Circle” label so as not to compete with ‘Goodbye My Lover Goodbye’ which had the usual black label (?). The other possibility I had considered was the fact that neither 'Love Potion No. 9' or 'Bumble Bee' were actually issued as Pye singles in the UK. Kapp apparently went ahead with singles releases for those titles on their own instincts.
     
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  4. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    I've got it covered, but thanks!
     
  5. dcitguy

    dcitguy Forum Resident

    great to have stumbled across this info. I have been able to confirm which Searchers 45s appeared in first time stereo except for the following:

    Sweets For My Sweet
    Sugar And Spice
    Some Day We're Gonna Love Again
    When You Walk In The Room
    What Have They Done To The Rain
    Bumble Bee
    Have You Ever Loved Somebody

    I know some of the above tracks appeared on the Marble Arch "Smash Hits" LPs while some (or all) appears on the "Golden Hour" LPs.

    Any help would be most appreciated! And yes, we DO care about this sort of thing...lol
     
  6. ash1

    ash1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    bristol uk
    I can't offer any info but it would be very interesting to see The Searchers mono/stereo situation sorted out and to know which of the USA albums have unique mixes (or UK if you're in the US).
     
  7. william r small

    william r small Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    Maybe this will help. All the tracks mentioned in Post #55 can be found in true stereo mixes on the 1988 US Rhino CD “The Searchers Greatest Hits” R2 75773.

    To the best of my knowledge, four of the five American Kapp vinyl LPs carried unique stereo mixes for these tracks (at least at the time): ‘Saturday Night Out’ (on the LP Needles and Pins, KS-3363); ‘I Pretend I’m With You’ (on This Is Us, KS-3409); ‘Goodbye My Love,’ ‘So Far Away,’ ‘Till I Met You,’ ‘He’s Got No Love’ (On The Searchers No. 4, KS-3449); ‘I’m Never Coming Back,’ ‘When I Get Home’ (Take Me for What I’m Worth, KS-3477. (The version of ‘I’ll Be Doggone’ issued in the USA [on The Searchers No. 4] is an alternative take. In addition a couple stray US stereo tracks seem to be different mixes to the UK stereo – ‘Needles and Pins’ and ‘Don’t Throw Your Love Away’ for example.)

    An excellent UK series of the five original British albums was released on CD in 2001 by Castle Music called “The Pye Series” (CMRCD -155, -156, -157, -158, -159). These offered the original UK albums in both mono and stereo, also including mono mixes of the contemporary single sides. Not included were stereo mixes of some of the tracks mentioned above as well as some tracks which had previously appeared on the vinyl LP “Golden Hour of The Searchers” (GH-541): ‘This Feeling Inside’ and ‘Take It Or Leave It’ for example. These were also on Marble Arch compilations in the late ‘60s.

    The stereo / mono body of Searchers output is still one of the most confusing discographies of the British invasion. I’m no expert but I hope this is of some assistance.
     
  8. dcitguy

    dcitguy Forum Resident

    Thanks, William. But I think you missed the point of my question: "FIRST" time stereo issue. I have the Rhino CD with all those stereo versions. I was hoping someone might be able to tell me on what LP they first appeared. As stated, candidates are the two Marble Arch Hits LPs from the 60s, and the 1970s "Golden Hour" LPs.

    Yeah, The Searchers, along with some of the other British Invasion bands stereo is quite confusing. I am doing my best to sort it out.
     
  9. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Also, Kapp's Medallion deluxe HiFi oriented series were also mastered by George Piros and John Johnson (Mono) as well, based on the credits of the examples I own. Other note: Kapp's early mono through the early Stereo through roughly 1961 were mainly pressed by RCA Custom Records in Indianapolis, Indiana. Past that era, Columbia Custom and Allentown Record Company pressed Kapp LP discs until Kapp was sold to Universal City Records/MCA, Inc.
     
  10. william r small

    william r small Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    dcitguy, I’ll give this my best shot. As you probably know, the first four Searchers Pye LPs were issued in mono only in the UK. Thus, Sounds Like Searchers (NPL-18111, March, 1965) the group’s fourth British album (which contained ‘Bumble Bee’) was issued in mono only there. However in the USA that album’s counterpart, The New Searchers LP (Kapp KS-3412 issued the same month) did receive a stereo release and this would be the first issue of ‘Bumble Bee’ in true stereo. (Oddly, ‘What Have They Done To the Rain’ is re-channeled stereo on that vinyl album release.)

    As for the remaining tracks you mention this would be my guess for first stereo release: ‘Sweets For My Sweet,’ ‘Sugar and Spice,’ ‘Someday We’re Gonna Love Again’ and ‘What Have They Done To the Rain’ would have been given their first stereo release on The Searchers Smash Hits (Marble Arch MALS-640, spring 1966). ‘When You Walk In the Room’ and ‘Have You Ever Loved Somebody’ would have first appeared in stereo mixes on The Searchers’ Smash Hits Vol.2 (Marble Arch MALS-673, spring ’67). As you noted, all these tracks (save ‘Bumble Bee’) would reappear on Golden Hour of The Searchers (Golden Hour GH-541, January 1972). Best wishes,

    [​IMG]picture uploading
     
  11. dcitguy

    dcitguy Forum Resident

    Thanks, William. I was hoping for someone who could verify the stereo content of those Marble Arch LPs, but you essentially confirmed my belief as to when the tracks first appeared in stereo, and often, that's all we can do. cheers!
     
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  12. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo!

    Location:
    NYC

    Im just curious, what does The Searchers SACD go for these days?
     
  13. goodiesguy

    goodiesguy Confide In Me

    Location:
    New Zealand
    I have volume 1 and they're all stereo on that, in fact, that LP is my go to version for 'Farmer John' as it doesn't have tape-dropouts like the CD version.
     
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  14. goodiesguy

    goodiesguy Confide In Me

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Been listening to various copies of the Searchers material in Mono and Stereo and noticed that the two tracks that were left off the American LP's from the first album have not appeared in Stereo (as far as I know):

    Da Doo Ron Ron
    Where Have All The Flowers Gone

    Did these appear in Stereo at a later date or have these always been mono only? The rest of the Debut (Meet The Searchers) is in stereo apart from those tracks (and Ain't Gonna Kiss Ya being an alternate take from the Mono Mix).
     
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  15. Billo

    Billo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern England
    No stereo masters of those two tracks so far appear to have been located

    'The Golden Hour of The Searchers' original UK LP while overall in true stereo had one track 'I Count The Tears' in mono enhanced for stereo - however this is in true stereo on the later CD version

    also 'I Don't Want To Go On Without' you was a differing mix on the original 'Golden Hour of...' vinyl LP with no instrument separation and the song is in mono on the later CD version....however later still the true stereo version is included on the mono/stereo CD version of 'Sounds Like Searchers' LP

    The original UK LP of 'A Golden Hour of...vol two' had 'Don't Ya Know' but the later CD incorrectly actually included 'Don't You Know Why' (in true stereo) mis-titled !

    PYE later became PRT - Precision Records Tapes

    the Hallmark UK budget LP 'Needles and Pins' as a different stereo mix of the title track

    a cheap Music Club 'Searchers Greatest' CD while not of mega sound quality is nevertheless o.k. and has almost all tracks (the UK hits and a few LP tracks) except 'Ain't Gonna Kiss Ya' and 'Where Have All The Flowers Gone' in stereo of it's 20 songs

    later Castle CD of 'It's The Searchers' had the first two tracks on the original vinyl sides one and two in mono with the rest in stere

    however a later mono/stereo CD version featured the entire album in true stereo as well as in mono

    the original PYE recording engineer was Ray Prickett

    the 'Hearts in Their Eyes' CD set had some improved mixes on tracks such as 'It's in Her Kiss' (where vocals were way out in front of instruments originally) and 'Till You Say You'll Be Mine' (where it was instrumentally more like: 'STRINGS....oh and The Searchers may be in there in the background somewhere' originally ! - now you can also hear the band playing as well )

    Chris Curtis was their main songwriter penning mostly 'B' sides and LP tracks - teaming with guitarist Mike Pender for the UK no.12 hit 'He's Got No Love' in 1965, Chris exit in 1966 was a major blow re their songwriting power....however both John McNally and Frank Allen stepped forward to join Mike Pender as composers for the band

    but (as re Ron Richards and The Hollies over 1963-early 1966) The Searchers, unlike The Beatles and George Martin, were never really encouraged to write material by their PYE staff producer tho' 'He's Got No Love' hitting no.12 in the UK in 1965 suggested they DID have far more songwriting ability than many thought, even if at that point not so prolific (but neither was George Harrison or Dave Davies then either)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
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  16. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member

    Interestingly enough, in around 1999 I bought an old RTR, an Ampex, of The New Searchers LP and it was in stereo. I was pretty impressed -- true stereo. Never heard it in stereo before. Probably the best I'd ever heard of that LP. I'd love to hear it again. As I recall, it was a 7.5 IPS. It's in storage and I can't get to it to revisit it...

    I do have a stereo press of the The New Searchers LP on Kapp and somehow it never had the impact on me that the reel did.

    But, when it's all said and done, Steve's AF comp is hands down the best you'll ever hear classic Searchers. I have the vinyl lp. Wish I'd bought the SACD too.
     
  17. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    I still want to know who compiled the US Kapp LP "This Is Us." It was issued in October of 1964 and has eight songs from "It's The Searchers" LP (Pye 18092, wasn't it?) plus two from "Sugar & Spice (Hungry For Love & Unhappy Girls) and one from "Meet The Searchers." (Love Potion #9) and one "single only B side" track (I Pretend I'm With You.)

    Who at Kapp compiled this? I've never been able to figure it out. It's actually a fine album on its own, and they reached back to get Love Potion #9 from the first album. Why? Obviously it wasn't because they thought it was going to be a hit, they buried it on side two. They even highlighted "Don't Throw Your Love Away" on the LP cover (later they removed that and highlighted Potion instead).

    Ah well, don't know why I care about stuff like this but the Kapp Records files never mentioned who A&R'd the Searchers stuff. Putting "I Pretend I'm With You" on the album at the end was the perfect closer and that track wasn't even on a Searchers LP in the UK. Someone at Kapp had a damn good ear back then. I'd love to give credit where it's due..

    Pics: Note the highlighting of the "hit" song changed during the second press. searchers one.jpg searchers two.jpg
     
  18. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    And of course, for the 5 of you that care, the US Kapp "This Is Us" album has unique mono and stereo mixes, done in New York. So the songs on there have four mixes each, two done in the UK at Pye and two done in NYC at Beltone. I've never compared closely but I think the New York mixes have even more reverb on them than the Pye stuff (this could also be a result of more compression artifacts, not sure).

    Over und out.
     
  19. MerseyBeatle

    MerseyBeatle Martha my dear (1995-2012)

    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    Thanks Steve. Count me as one of the 5. Do the other Kapp LPs have unique mono and / or stereo mixes or is it just “This is Us”?

    Thank you.
     
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  20. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Better late than never answer: Pye did not use AME EQ, they used good old American NAB.
     
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Well, since Pye mixed stereo for Kapp only, I would say all their mixes are unique. But, strictly speaking, THIS IS US has New York mixed songs. Also, TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT and one other song (can't remember now, sorry) were sent to Kapp in New York on three-channel so that song also has a unique stereo mix. Did Kapp ever release TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT?
     
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  22. MerseyBeatle

    MerseyBeatle Martha my dear (1995-2012)

    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    No, I don’t believe they did. Also, thanks for the reply.
     
  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Yeah, I guess they never did.

    BTW, on my Audio Fidelity SACD of THE SEARCHERS COLLECTION "Take It Or Leave it" is on there in a one-of-a-kind unique stereo mix from the three-channel done especially for us in the UK on analog tape. It sounds really wonderful. Hope everyone has the SACD we did. A lot of hard work went into that!
     
  24. MerseyBeatle

    MerseyBeatle Martha my dear (1995-2012)

    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    Oh yeah, I have your Searchers AF SACD disc. :righton:
     
  25. javilu77

    javilu77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Buenos Aires
    Hi guys,
    Need some help from the experts here.
    So after years of searching and spending my hard earned money I have on CD:

    *The 5 mono/stereo Castle Lps with single bonus tracks.
    *The 2 Cd set "Pye Anthology" for the late Pye singles
    *The Repertoire "German, french & Rare recordings" for the post Pye singles

    That totals 8 Searchers Cds in my collection.
    My question is: Do I need any other CDs for stereo mixes of the singles?
    I know for a fact that on the beautiful Castle 2fers all singles are mono mixes.
    Did not have time to check The Pye Anthology yet.

    I know the AF CD will be the best sounding of the lot but I live in a ****ty third world country and can't afford super expensive CDs.

    Thanks!
     
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