FYI, How to judge interconnects, power cords, speaker cable, etc. Let's share techniques together..

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Steve Hoffman, Jan 31, 2019.

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  1. Sneaky Pete

    Sneaky Pete Flat the 5 and That’s No Jive

    Location:
    NYC USA
    I believe in science, I’m not a flat earther. In my opinion the human ear, like the human eye senses things in way that is different from scientific instruments. In some ways the eye and ear are more sensitive. If the differences are not being measured we are probably measuring the wrong things.
     
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  2. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Yeah, this is another way of evaluating cable. Live with it for awhile and then take it out and put in the old cable again.
     
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  3. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    Any audio engineer will have his or her hearing tested, so they'll know what their limitations are, and what biases they will unconsciously introduce into their productions.

    Graham Nash had very high quality art printing business called Nash Editions. I've worked in this field and it's very difficult to exactly reproduce a physical work of art. First, it has to be photographed. So you have the camera shoot a chip chart, to make a "profile" of the camera's color response. If is a film camera, you have to profile the scanner. You have to profile the monitor, the printer, the ink and the paper.

    And in the end you still have the artist complaining that this red is not exactly the same red that they envisioned.

    Nash Editions introduced a really clever thing where they have the artist paint a chip chart, mixing paints to reproduce the colors they see on the chart - in effect "profiling" their eyes.
     
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  4. Sneaky Pete

    Sneaky Pete Flat the 5 and That’s No Jive

    Location:
    NYC USA
    Since my first career, for twenty years, was as a graphic designer I’m very familiar with the process. It’s not easy, the results are always a compromise. Like recording music. :)
     
  5. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    B.C.
    :agree: A grand mistake I made as well, but finally was able to arrive at the exact same conclusion as you did.
     
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  6. LuciferSam341

    LuciferSam341 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    A power supply is a totally different beast to an AC power cable... of course there are noisy terrible power supplies...
     
  7. G E

    G E Senior Member

    Agreed. I hook up hagerman’s unit to phono input and run the sweep frequencies through entire system
     
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  8. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    I just wish every penny spent on expensive power cords, speaker wires and "interconnects" had been spent on acoustical room treatments instead.
     
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  9. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I would think that people that spend big bucks on wire already have room treatments. I measured my room's frequency response and applied appropriate room treatments before even considering better cable.
     
  10. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    I don't know. I can't tell you that how many times I've seen a $100,000 worth of audio equipment in a room with $0 worth of acoustical treatment; $50,000 speakers right next to sliding glass doors. You think those little cable support stands are going to make a difference when you can't so much as clap your hands in the room with the system off without hearing a flutter?
     
  11. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    That is baffling. Even when I was much younger, and there was no internet or formal room treatments, I would do the clapping test in the room I was using and treat it with drapes, wall hangings, furniture etc. I didn't need to read a book to know that there were some nasty reflections that rooms created. Again, it's all about listening.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
  12. wwaldmanfan

    wwaldmanfan Born In The 50's

    Location:
    NJ
    This debate has gone on ad infinitum, but I have to ask, yet again. Not discussing phono cartridges, vacuum tubes, capacitors, speaker drivers, etc. Just cables. What does "burning in" a cable do to change the electrical properties of a simple piece of insulated copper wire to yield an audible improvement in SQ?
     
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  13. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Funny, I was brought up in music studios, hard surfaces, speakers mounted high in the wall aimed at me sitting behind a console. All so-called bad things. That's how 90% of your favorite music was created. I don't worry as much about the room as you guys seem to for this reason.
     
  14. If you have the chance to ever do this, give it a try. Real eye opener.

    Listen to a very resolving, high quality system where much time has been spent selecting interconnects and power cords, resulting in a “Synergistic”, musical system. Pick whatever music you like, Something you are extremely familiar with.

    Now, remove all of the cables. Replace them with the el cheapo stuff that comes with entry level receivers etc - molded plastic connections, zip cord speaker wire (even fairly heavy gauge), and basic power cord.

    Play the same music again.

    It’s plainly obvious there is a difference. How much you want to spend to achieve that difference is up to each person. The Law of Diminishing Returns is very much the overriding factor.
     
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  15. Norco74

    Norco74 For the good and the not so good…

    Yes and too much acoustic treatment will just kill the live essence of the music.

    As with cables and equipment, there’s a way to achieve acoustic treatment without overdoing it.

    Not that I am an apostle of Michael Fremer but having seen his « working place » that he uses to review high end equipment on a few videos, convinced me that your listening room doesn’t need to be professionaly treated to be ´listenable’. Nothing’s perfect.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
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  16. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Describe in detail the difference you hear.

    And please don't use words like "essence", "nuanced" or any other vague and meaningless description.

    My '72 solid state Sansui amp/receiver is connected to my living room wall socket by its original two pronged plug-in power cord that looks like it came off an old Sunbeam toaster. Its sound quality goes through more changes (differences) the more I increase the volume than the "differences" mentioned in this entire thread. For instance a lead vocal on some CD music is set back into the reverb at low volumes but seems to blossom and open up with more detail the louder I make it by raising the volume. On other CD music this doesn't happen where the lead vocal is balanced with the rest of the instruments at any volume setting.

    I just can't see how using just one test piece of music is going to indicate the same behavior will be applied to other music just by changing the cables. So what if there's a difference, whatever that means. Is it a desirable difference?

    Why is everyone in this thread short on words in describing this "difference"?
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
  17. jtw

    jtw Forum Resident

    My humble system works better with a power cord.
     
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  18. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    The studios I've been in had non-parallel walls, treatment on those walls, diffusion on the back wall - all to try to counteract the necessity of a large hard surface in the form of the console. This was in the late Seventies/early Eighties. The speakers were high up because of the window into the studio. Suffice to say, we did the very best we could to optimize the acoustics.
     
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  19. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Yes, but how powerful is that cord?
     
  20. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    This is very true. But the noise floor of an unplugged piece of equipment is incredible.
     
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  21. Easiest for me is Cymbals. They pick up a quality of authenticity on many of my recordings. I am not an avid Jazz or Classical listener, but any of the Dire Straits material or Steely Dan is easy.

    Positioning of the istruments and/or Artists - Focus is you will. One of my references is “Walking on the Moon” by The Yuri Honing Trio - The Drum set takes on width between the Left Channel and Center. Pieces from The Ultimate Demo CD from Chesky are fairly easy to differentiate as well. I always had trouble following some of the descriptions the Narrator gives for the songs and what they are supposed to illustrate until I got all of my Cables moved up a few notches, then it became easier. If you are familiar with that CD, you will understand what I mean. If not, it is harder to describe without getting very long winded.

    I have several other reference pieces that I use for various purposes - and as I improved cables, those became even easier to see (hear). But based upon your choice of words in your post, I believe you wouldn’t like the phrases I would use on them. “Presence” & “Air”. “Naturalness”.”Depth”.

    They only seem like vague or even poor descriptors until you experience them on a High Quality syst em in a good Room, then you start trying to replicate them in your own system. It is a long, expensive, and frequently, disappointing, journey. One that I am still working on in my system.

    If you can, find some other people that are into Audio in your area and spend a day swapping out gear and Interconnects (speaker wire and power as well) and make your own conclusions.
     
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  22. Philip Begley

    Philip Begley Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ireland
    Yikes, I thought we were talking about analog systems, ie., turntables, pre-amps and power amps. When it comes to digital connections, there
    can be all kinds of problems with clocking and error correction......I try to avoid it as much as possible!
     
  23. jonwoody

    jonwoody Tragically Unhip

    Location:
    Washington DC
    Your humble system would not work at all without a power cord. :D
     
  24. Juan Matus

    Juan Matus Reformed Audiophile

    You don't have to apologize -- right now data, algorithms, and artificial intelligence are starting to chip away at the humanist worldview that has so dominated the last two centuries of human history. But, in 50 years time slogans like "trust yourself" or "listen to you heart" will be totally laughable. Some people are maybe ahead of their time.
     
  25. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    My clone sleeps alone.
     
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