Sussudio: would've it been accepted if anyone but Phil Collins had sung it?

Accepted? The damn song (which is horrendous, by the way) was everywhere at the time.

 

Charts don't really tell us much all the time. Brown Eyed Girl, probably the most famous and overplayed Van Morrison tune, only hit #10 at the time. In the Air was also only a moderate hit when it originally came out, but went on to become his most famous song.

Especially by the 80s, people weren't buying singles. And music had splintered into many sub genres. Average dude listening to his favorite rock, alternative, rap, or country station may have never heard "Groovy Kind of Love." I know that I didn't. (My mom probably heard it on her "Lite FM" station, though.)

 

I sort of agree. I did not like the "Invisible Touch" single... It seemed like more of a Phil Collins solo single... but the CD on the whole was pretty good...

but by the time of But Seriously with "Another Day in Paradise" and "I Wish It Would Rain Down"... I was just over solo Phil Collins and Genesis just sounded like another Phil Collins "product".


That being said... Phil and Genesis were dominant in the 80's. They were a band that evolved into a radio friendly powerhouse...

What's the worst someone can say about them; that they were overexposed?

I do not understand the hate.

 

"Tragically weak" is a good description for not even trying to notice that there are plenty of people all around you, who like it just fine, and are not impressed by your being unable to discuss what you don't like about it, but go so far out on a limb to call something "tragically weak" on no stated basis.

You can at least attempt to satisfy people by not trying to impress by lashing out pointlessly (and artlessly). Empathy might be a good way to start. First, the song is not a "meaningless word"...because he ascribed a meaning to it.

Now, your description? Yes, that makes sense. I hope that wasn't a mistake on your part to actually make a point, it was a good one. It's also the feeling millions of people get about millions of songs every day, which brings me back to my original thought of, "why is it this one that sticks in the craws of such a specific sort of member on this board?". Why among so many known musical irritants that you never see a thread about here (it's why I used the Amy Grant song as an example).

Your "theory" on the song is sort of laughable. Collins is (and has discussed it before, as well as released jillions of demos, on singles, bonus tracks in special editions, etc) a member of a large number of songwriters who works "backwards", searching for words to fit a melody he's already worked out without an idea of the subject of a song. Whether he started with "studio", or "doot-doot-doo-dio" doesn't matter when you're just brainstorming the direction of a melody, or a horn figure, or the bridge. Fact is, he arrived at his choice, as he has done scores of different times before, and finished the lyric around the sounds coming out of his mouth he had already decided on. And I am simply at a loss as to why, in a world of peoples and languages and cultures and Swingle Singers, this is such a sticking point with people who encounter unintelligible language every day.

Oh, and maybe you missed this before, but...the song is not "Su-su-sudio". That's a lyrical hook. It's same as the "la-la-la" you find in "Brown Eyed Girl", or the "heh-heh" in "Love Rollercoaster" or the "yeah, yeah, yeah" in that song whose artist and title slip my mind at this point. The song is titled, "Sussudio" - four syllables. And apparently four syllables that give irrational music haters who can't dance, all the cover they need to make their case about the undeserved esteem everybody else around you may have bestowed on this song. Which also, let it be repeated...makes your girlfriend dance better than you can.

 

I am not a big fan of his vocals but that song does rock.

 

The problem, and you sort of agree, is that Phil not only was everywhere, and never went away for most of the decade, but he couldn't sustain the quality of material that made him a superstar in the first place. It would be one thing if he's on the radio and TV all the time for six years and every song is a winner--he'd be like The Beatles, then. But instead he filled a lot of that airtime, especially after 1984, with records that I consider to be schlock.

 

And now the song pops up in the forum every day via this thread. And it is suddenly back in my head!!

 

I agree. He spread himself too thin...and just put out too much "hit" product... he should have released less music with more artistry.


The soundtrack stuff was always pretty bad.

 

You're right; charts don't tell you much, if you're using them to prove anything they weren't really designed for. They're for us: the industry wonks who determine next week's playlists based on last week's numbers, the guys doing the ordering at your local record shop (not really much of that anymore, but...), and everybody who actually gets paid to make a qualitative determination based on numbers flimsily-tallied by an intern in the Billboard office, based on the lying statistics phoned- or faxed-in by a couple thousand radio program directors, based on the cocaine, babes, mo-money, or concert tickets, key rings and satin jackets with a band's name on them nobody every heard of, sent by a grateful indie promoter to a shyster of a consultant eating a steak dinner with his trusting station manager (by the way, guess who gets the key rings, once the general manager gets all the other stuff...?). The only reason you in the non-industry part of the world ever give any credence to the charts at all, is on account of Casey Kasem...and even he wasn't straight with you about their real significance...just that "Break My Stride" by Matthew Wilder hasn't come on yet, while "The Rain" by Orran Juice Jones got played an hour-and-a-half ago.

"Brown-Eyed Girl" may be a #10 charter, but in every Oldies station I've ever worked on, the title was one of the top three most-played, most-repeated songs out of a 350-500-song on-air playlist. And every music test only shows target audience response that, no matter how you burn that into their brains, the audience is always up to hear it again. In fact, I would lay money that, if on 9/11 they had only hit brown-eyed girls...Clear Channel would still have never put it on a no-play list.

Okay, that I don't buy. The fact that you surmized your mom might have heard it on Adult Contemporary radio, indicates you actually were familiar enough with it, that somehow the record made a significant impression on you to remember that about it. "Average dude" may have "never heard" it...but doubtless he has just no idea how many times he's ignored it, turned his radio away from it, or walked right under it, pushing a grocery cart. And yet I'm still perfectly onboard with your premise.

 

Classic? Peter Gabriel sure did. And Gabriel never sold out to the masses.

 

I remember really liking that song when it was released....although I would have been 10.

 

If the song was a about a girl shouldn't it have been SUE SUE SUE DIA

 

You could argue that Gabriel stretched further into commerciality (considering where he'd been previously) with "Sledgehammer" and "In Your Eyes" than Collins did with "Sussudio."

 

First thing that comes to mind when I hear that song or see it mentioned is that episode!

Also the classic 'You'll Be Inside Of Me'...

 

Interesting to hear the inside scoop on charts and such. Growing up I did listen to Casey and took his countdowns as gospel! I vaguely remember when Soundscan came into the picture the charts suddenly became much more volatile.

Honestly, I did not hear Groovy at the time. I was in college and our dorm didn't have cable, so no MTV. Music I heard at the time was either stuff on rock stations or stuff other kids were into, which was more like Guns and Roses, Cure, Depeche Mode. Phil Collins was off the radar. I heard it years later when an XM 60s on 6 DJ was playing the original and said Phil had done a cover that hit #1. Looked it up and it sounded like MOR, hence my thought that my Mom would have heard it.

If I look at the charts from the late 1980s on, there are many songs I don't recognize. Now I'm at the point where if I look at a 2019 top 10 list, I don't recognize ANY of the songs! (Old!)

 

So tired of the we hate Phil crowd ... really unsure of the motivation to spend so much energy on it

 

I can relate; my wife's a military brat, and spent her high school years...on an island in The Azores, off of Portugal! Now...think about that for a minute, and how much socio-cultural cues one picks up in their high school years. Even today I'll bring up a song, a band, a movie...and it's like she just flew in from Venus, hi, what'd I miss...?

BTW - "supersquonk" - great name! I hope someday somebody puts out an album, "Supersquonk Plays Byrd"!

 

Phil Collins was right there with Peter Gabriel previously. Examine both men's solo careers and I come to the conclusion Gabriel was much more innovative IMHO.

 

Wiggle Wiggle: would've it been accepted if anyone but Bob Dylan had sung it?

 

I wouldn't know as I'd have to hear the others singing it...: )
IMO, Phil owns this...

 

I'm still shocked "In the Air" ONLY made to #19 here when it went top ten or number one elsewhere!
And yet it's probably his most famous/iconic track and probably one of the most influential songs in pop and rock. Responsible for at least 10 hip-hop samples from Nas ("One Mic") and 2Pac ("Starin' Through My Rearview") .

 

LOL you wrong for that.

 

I don't think that takes an examination.

EDIT: Now I know how folks in the Maroon 5 thread feel.

 

Do you like Phil Collins? I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Christy, take off your robe. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. Sabrina, remove your dress. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Sabrina, why don't you, uh, dance a little. Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as anything I've heard in rock. Christy, get down on your knees so Sabrina can see your *******. Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and Against All Odds. Sabrina, don't just stare at it, eat it. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist. This is Sussudio, a great, great song, a personal favorite.

 

Yeah, manco, I dig him.