Speed stability: Direct Drive vs belt

Been usin' the DD thingy today...

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We all taking a coffee break for a while before proceeding? Come on, get back in here... break time's over, back on your heads!

Or maybe we reached consensus.... what did we decide - is Belt more speed stable or vise versa???

 

Yes.

 

Good answer, best one yet!

 

I don´t there is any problem at all to like a TT more that has a higher number of W&F; and consequently like a TT less with a much lower number of W&F. It´s to me not a good idea in relating much of the SQ to W&F. Other factors might, and will, also cause frequency modulations and vibrations, and might be more dominant. What we will hear is combination of many factors.

Besides that; if we want to know the W&F figures we have to measure. It is also so that certain modulating frequencies are worse than others.

 

I don't think I've ever purchased a table based on specs. I have problems with trust unless perhaps performed by an independent lab.

 

BD = Life giving
DD = Life sucking

The life sucking properties have grown on me over the years.

 

Not in my experience. That statement is very over-broad, at best. I went from a Clearaudio Concept Wood with Satisfy arm to a Technics SL-1200G, and the Technics had considerably more “life” with the same cartridge. Granted, it cost about 50% more...

 

completely opposite in my experiences.

 

Why even glorify that with a response. Clearly someone after reading the back and forth in the thread (which was mostly deleted by the way by the mods) that was just trying to stir trouble.... one-sided negative blanket statements like that are what cause all the emotional responses and are just short-sighted and ignorant.

We can't bite on the trolling responses, that is why these threads get out of hand.

 

It's rather kind of the Gorts to let these silly 2-sided arguments on like this.

 

To me, true two-sided arguments are fine as long as they contain logic, reason, objectivity --- it's when extreme statement and then emotion take over that it gets counter-productive. Some enjoy a healthy data-based argument where true pro / con, advantage / disadvantage are explored --- that's where most of the true learning happens for those looking to make a choice.

It's when some get attached to their choice as best, the "there can be only one" mentality where it breaks down - when in truth it is usually an "it depends" or "to what degree" or "how much do you want to spend" comparison and is never so simple that blanket statements of one is better covers it. This speed / stability topic is a perfect example --- it depends!!!

 

Very patient they are.

 

Yea, sure, until you go a little too far ...

 

I looked for a "central scrutinizer" pic (Zappa), recall a while ago seeing something funny........ but couldn't find a good one.....

 

lol, kenwood

 

I have heard numerous technics and other mid-priced DD tables, and they all sound like tin.

 

Not sure what you are laughing at.... I have a Kenwood KP-1100 which is the same as the KP-9010 just a different year.... and they are some of the finest tables made from a S/N ratio aspect, plus their "spider" X-frame is very stable, enough that some run it naked. I think Kenwoods are some of the best valued DD's from the late 70's and early 80s.

I own many early 80's DD TT's, including three SL-1200's and the Kenwood is top three in SQ and noise level.... and that's compared to things like a GT-2000L, PL-70Lii, that I own and more. Or are those "LOL" tables too?

Kenwood KP-1100 on thevintageknob.org

And back to one-sided, blanket trolling type statements that only serve to inflame.... and you said "heard" vs "had" --- probably one's poorly set up.

 

Here's my experience:
After 50 years experience selling gear in the high end: I bought a belt drive turntable, a Pro-Ject RPM-9 and added an expensive add-on Pro-Ject "speed controller."
It worked fine with a cheap OM-20 low mass/high compliance easy to handle cartridge.
Then I bought a stiff low compliance LOMC Denon DL-103 and it wouldn't play it worth a s**t.
The belt drive stretched and dropped in pitch on loud passages and basically sounded horrible.
Turning a five pound platter with a rubber band is not a good idea period.
We knew this back in 1974 when the Direct Drive Japanese Technics tables came on the market and I was the state manager for "Custom HiFi" a national chain that I ran in Florida.
We all KNEW immediately in 1974 that Direct Drive had the right stuff and was MILES ahead of rubber band drive turntables.
Then somehow the liars and fools took over this industry and began the mantra that "direct drive has "cogging" and that rubber band drive turntables were "THE BEST."
What a crock.
To make a long story short I complained about belt drive to Stereophile and the Absolute Sound and bought a Technics SL1210M5G turntable and was IMMEDIATELY in love with vinyl again.
Liars and cheap skates that build crummy belt drive tables (because it takes NO TALENT to build a rubber band table) are not able to compete with a finely manufactured direct drive setup.
And god forbid you try to run a stiff heavy tracker like a LOMC on your expensive rubber band turntable...
My two cents.

 

your two cents are wrong. the cartridge is not gonna cause the belt to "stretch," that is a joke

The idea you can't use a LOMC on a belt drive is utter rubbish.

 

total garbage

 

here's the thing about DD, it is solving a problem that doesn't exist. And taking a good portion of the build budget of a table that would be better used somewhere else. And the whole design is a flaw because the motor can't be properly decoupled from the platter

 

OK sure.
So the FACT that piano recordings got all stretched out and wobbly with tons of wow and flutter is just MY IMAGINATION...
Ha ha ha.