Yamaha A-S1100 or McIntosh MA5200

So, here's something interesting. I was just commenting to my wife how the A-S1100 sounds at low volume. It's low, but full sounding. On the 602 it was low but felt like it was missing something. In the 602 manual it says to use the Loudness control for listening at lower volumes. What you are supposed to do is turn up the 602 to the loudest level you would want to listen to and then turn use the Loudness control down to adjust the volume. Problem is the remote does not have the Loudness control on it so you have to get up, walk over to the amp, and adjust it manually every time. The Loudness control accentuates the lows and mids which tend to drop off at lower volumes. This doesn't happen on the A-S1100. I'm guessing that's why it doesn't have or need a Loudness control. Now, another thought. I mentioned before that the A-S1100 sounds fuller than the 602 in general. That's with tone controls set flat on both. I'm now wondering if I were to go through the process of setting the 602 to the highest level, using the Loudness control to bring it back down to the average I listen to, and then using the Volume control on the remote for adjustments there on, would it fill out like the A-S1100? Just a thought. After I'm confident the A-S1100 is fully broken in I will give it a try when/if comparing the two amps.

This brings up something interesting. If we want an amp to produce the most neutral sound, how do we know? If I like the sound of the "neutral" sound of A-S1100 more than the 602, but the 602 can be adjusted to sound like the A-S1100, then it's all relative... All that matters is if the music sounds good to you. There is no "neutral" or "natural" sound. It's all the sound through a given amp. The sound of the amp is what we like or not.

BTW, I'm going bare wire into the amps, so swapping them isn't ideal as I could end up breaking off wire strands. I don't want to take my cables in to solder on banana plugs as it would be too much of a hassle just to run some A/B listening tests. Does anyone have an opinion on using the solderless screw type banana plugs? Are they solid or would I be introducing a potential signal loss or interference adding another layer to the connection? Any recommendations on which ones to grab off of Amazon or the like? I'd rather just ship them to me than going out of the way for a this purchase.

 

OK, three days in and the amp is sounding much cleaner, less saturated. And, man does it sound good. Natural, clear, and warm. The first night I switched it to standby mode overnight. After that I've just left it on and switched the meters off as recommended by others.

 

I like these, they feel very solid in use.

"Angled Locking and Stacking Banana Plug with Dual Set Screws Poly Carbonate Shell and Insulated Thumbscrew 2 Pair" from www.parts-express.com!

 

Matrix, stop overthinking things. Leave you amp on as I and others have suggested. All things have a break/burn in period. Speakers, Amps, DAC's, Cars and Motorcycles all have a break-in period. Get to know the amp over the next few months before purchasing new speakers. Yes, Klipsch Forte III's work very well with the A-S1100. I have about 50 hours on mine now. They started out pretty rough and schrilly sounding for the first 10 or so hours of use. Also I have done some additional room tuning and positioning testing of the Fortes. But they can now hold their own or better my B&W PM-1's in detail. When it comes to Bass, dynamics and drive the Klipsch blow the B&W's out of the water. The B&W's have more depth of sound stage and tighter imaging. There will always be trade offs and compromises between different audio components. Think about sticking to copper based cables for now. Good luck!

 

So, I'm still researching banana plug styles and saw the following: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81Olwy2VywL._SL1500_.jpg

The one labeled as "optimal signal transfer" is the kind where you splay the wire over the teeth. That just seems like a bad move imo. The dual screw lock and open screw type keep the wires intact and seem to be closer in application to bare wire going into the receiver. But... that image claims the splaying solution is "optimal". Is that just marketing or is there some truth to it for whatever reason?

 

Yep, that's why I picked up the Heresey IIIs and plan to keep by P3s. They serve different purposes and both work well with my space restrictions. As for leaving the amp on, I will for now, but later I'll likely use the remote for turning both off at night and both on during the morning. It's just easier and there is no risk to damaging the amps, so no biggie. Right now I have to go turn the meters off at night and back on in the morning, and my wife forgets the steps - using the 602 remote to turn the radio on and not the A-S1100. One click at night and one click in the morning is just more convenient.

 

The locking bananas won't fall out of the binding post if you move your speakers or amp. All four of the bananas on that page are the spring loaded type, I've had those fall out of binding post just from the weight/stiffness of the speaker cable. I would avoid the spring loaded types like those. If you don't want locking bananas, investigate the BFA style bananas.

Since you don't have any bananas yet, you might want to look at spades too. They're not as convenient as bananas, but they make a very secure connection that many prefer.

 

If you are concerned about the design of the connector and how it performs why are you not going straight into amp with the wire ends and eliminating an additional set of contacts?

If you are going to add another set of contacts I'd make them gas tight, i.e. a good crimp or soldering. I'd use a spade connector so I can get it tight as a drum to the amplifier.

 

I want to be able to A/B the A-S1100 with my R-N602 across two sets of speakers (Harbeth P3s and Klipsch Heresey IIIs) for myself and friends when they come over. That equates to eight wires I'd have to unscrew and move back and forth. Banana plugs would be much simpler. As for soldering, I don't trust myself so I'd have to bring them into a shop and I don't necessarily trust it over time. Soldering joints could crack after use. That, and undoing my wiring, taking it to a shop, and resetting it all up again is unappealing. If there isn't a difference with the screw on plugs, why bother.

 

Thanks. I will check them out. I don't plan to move anything around, but I don't want the connections slipping out over time.

 

I know this thread has moved on but I feel compelled to say I was taken a back with my Yamaha CD S3000. It sounded great, then went for repair (a major over hall after I'd only had it a month or so) and it didn't sound as good when it was returned to me. I almost returned it, however, after a month or two it returned to it's original sound. This was and is the only time I have experienced "burn in" and I really don't think it was just me getting used to the sound! If it can happen with a CD player then it can certainly happen with solid state amps!

 

The Heresey IIIs arrived. Nuts. Christening them with Led Zeppelin III. On Celebration Day.

 

OK, the Heresey IIIs are honestly giving my P3s a run for the money. I was expecting a wall of sound experience minus the detail of the P3s. The detail is all there! The only way I can describe the difference between the two is the P3 sounds like I'm in the studio behind the mixing desk, while the IIIs sound like I'm in the room with the band playing live. I'm listening to a Battles CD now with just the drummer and it's like he's right there in the speakers.

 

Thats all well and good...but how's the amp??

 

The amp is great! I have no idea if it's done breaking in though. I went a little over budget on the Hereseys, so I'm holding off on the banana jacks for now. I'll A/B the A-S1100 and R-N602 when I get them. That will be the most interesting test. Until then, I'll just continue breaking everything in.

 

I'm still pondering whether to upgrade from my A-S501 to the 1100 and was wondering if the OP or anyone else could comment on two things.

First, earlier in this thread, the OP quoted a user review of the 1100 saying "the gain on the volume control is way off, just a single input greatly increases or decreases the volume." Has anyone else found this to be the case and, if so, is it a real problem? I love the very small incremental adjustments on the 501's volume control.

Second, the 1100's depth spec is 1/4" shorter in depth than the rack shelf I would put it on, so it would fit, but all the cables would stick out a bit. Has anyone found that to be a problem in any respect, whether it be aesthetics in having to keep the rack a bit further from the wall, or strain on cables no longer having a bit of shelf to lay on before bending off to their various destinations?

 

Wall of sound from Heresy's? More like floor of sound, am i right?

 

The volume control on the unit is fine. The remote is another story. It tends to jump a bit so you have to kind of increase and decrease to get the right level. You also want to press and release fast like a push button vs. holding it down. The R-N602 volume remote works better. I think the difference is the 602 the physical volume knob is endless so it doesn't actually turn using the remote, while on the 1100 it does turn because it has a limited range from 0 - max. Not sure why Yamaha weren't able to do some trickery to make the remote work smoother. It's not bad to the point it is unusable though. It just take a couple of presses going in either direction to get to the level you want.

As for the depth, I have mine on a solid fish tank stand acting like a table. It's 21 inches from the front knob to the cables resting against the wall. I'd say you have 20 to 21 inches to work with before the cables would pinch.

 

The knob doesn't seem overly sensitive in my experience. If this is only happening with the Heresys, it's because of their sensitivity.

 

No, not that meaning of sensitive. Sensitive in the resolution sense - a good thing. The higher the sensitivity the higher the resolution. The lesser the sensitivity, the lower the resolution. The remote is less sensitive so it doesn't have the ability to transition as smoothly as the volume knob on the amp itself.

 

Thanks for the thought on this, matrix-6 and helom. Sounds like mostly adapting to the remote, and depth would work with my rack.

Helom, seems you had paired this amp with Epos Epic 2 speakers, which is what I'm using with the 501. Do you think they're up to the task of the 1100? With the 501, I generally seem to prefer boosting the bass just a bit.

Sorry for partial thread hijack.

 

It's been quite some time since I had the Epic 2s in house. I think you'll at least hear some improvement in soundstage and channel separation regardless of speakers used. The bass of my A-S500 is arguably better than the 1100 in some regards. Not by much, but I'd say the upper bass of the 500 is a little more punchy - one of the strengths of bipolar transistors. You probably wouldn't miss it much with the Epics though, as they sort of wrote the book on upper-bass punch and don't need any help there IMO. In fact, I haven't owned a more dynamic speaker than the Epic 2s in that regard (accounting somewhat for size). The Epics are such great all-around speakers - jack of all trades that are not the best at anything, but at least good at everything.

IMO, one really can't go wrong with the 1100, whether it's driving $300 or $6K speakers. It's an extremely well-engineered amp. One member here uses a 2100 to power $26K Rockport Atrias.

 

Thanks for the considered response. Maybe I'm best served keeping my money for now and continuing to add a little bass when necessary, or trying some other speakers just because, you know, there are so many. The 501/Epic 2 combo really does sound nice in my space, but I do dig those old school meters!

 

I'm a bit surprised the Epics don't put out quite enough bass in a 12×15' room. Could always add a sub.

 

Would you say the same of the A-S801?