Bob Dylan "Rolling Thunder Revue: The 1975 Tour Recordings" (14CD box set; 7th June 2019)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by DeeThomaz, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. Alphatheta

    Alphatheta Forum Resident

    [QUOTE="It is pretty clear that the scope of this latest Scorsese project is to edit together the 1975 footage into a story. The story will be of the 1975 leg. I am sure that this story, the live footage, and music will contain their own revelations and discoveries. My own preference would be that the film would include the preceding years so as to connect it to No Direction Home, but it looks like that is not likely either. I do not think, though, that we need be frustrated by the apparent and likely absence of 1976 material. The Dylan team will get there. Thank you again to everyone's wonderful contributions here.[/QUOTE]

    Thank's to Hatmatter for referencing my post about RTR and Camelot from the other discussion thread. Forgive this rambling post. I also really enjoy the to and fro here when it's respectful and well informed. You're right to remind us not to prejudge the Scorsese film. What Dylan fan wouldn't welcome a release like this, or the soundtracks that are accompanying it? But this is Dylan at his greatest, so how can we not bring hopes, fears and preconceptions to bear? Everyone here has their own intimate relationship with this work, which has had the unique fate - for an artist of Dylan's stature - of existing at least partly in the public domain through private collections of unofficial recordings.

    When the high priests of Dylanology turn this open ended, underground discourse between artist and audience into an official orthodoxy, the results and response are inevitably ambivalent. On the one hand; we have the immense pleasure and satisfaction of seeing and hearing previously undiscovered gems; or shows and songs we already know and love but in previously unknown multi track perfection; and we enjoy the affirmation that comes from seeing things we've enthused about for years (IOW or 79-81) becoming common cultural knowledge and being critically reassessed. On the other hand, our intensely personal relationship to this body of work, so particular to Dylan, sometimes becomes relegated to the official narrative.

    Sometimes these official narrators are brilliant artists (like Scorsese or Haynes) or sympathetic commentators who were also part of the history (Sloman;) and sometimes they're less impressive (no names mentioned.) I think this inconsistency is the cause of a lot of the grumbling and argument that follows the BS releases and their accompanying literature here. We're witnessing the formation of a canon and this is inevitably controversial. Educated , long term fans struggle to reconcile their deeply personal relationship to Dylan's oeuvre, hewn over years of devotion, with the new, official narratives that sometimes relegate their treasured experiences to the backseat of history. I didn't share their outrage, but I understood and sympathised with the Spooky Organ Objectors, who argued that the official BS 14 mix of Idiot Wind redacted something that not only had great personal but also historical significance.. Thankfully Sony have seen fit to redress this with the upcoming Record Day release, and that seems both sympathetic and responsible.

    My earlier post about the Scorsese doc comes from a similar place. It's partly about my intense love affair with the music of 76. But it's also about a particular fascination I have with 70's US culture and the shift it underwent in the mid to late 70's, from a high water period of intense creativity and radicalism to the dumbed down conservatism of the Reagan and pre-Reagan years - from Taxi Driver to Star Wars, if you will. I see the Camelot/ RTR analogy that I put forward earlier as an illustration of this. And the shift from 75 to 76 as a progression that anticipated and commented on it.

    I don't think this is entirely too far fetched. Part of what has always made Dylan such a great artist is his instinctive ability to make the personal consonant with the universal. (Isn't this the function of those lines in Idiot Wind that Ginsberg loved so much - "blowing in a circle around my skull, from the Grand Coulee damn to the Capitol? " ) Like Idiot Wind, RTR also seems to me to have been conceived, in part ,as a commentary on America past and present and the cultural and political currents of its time. The significance of Dylan's role as a prophet, commenting on America from the perspective of his own spiritual disillusionment and rebirth, seems only to have gained as the decade went on, and in retrospect.

    It's fascinating to me that Scorsese was also a key actor in this drama, and suffered his own disillusionment (and later rebirth) as a result of the shifting values of America and Hollywood as they evolved into the 80's. Thus, I guess, my disappointment that he seemingly hasn't attempted to tell this story, which is partly his story too, by embracing the tragedy of 76 alongside the myth-making of 75. But he's chosen to do something else and it goes without saying that I can't wait to see what it is. In the final end, it's Dylan, RTR 75 and Scorsese. We can talk, criticise and debate here, but I agree let's give thanks too.
     
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  2. Hatmatter

    Hatmatter Hard Rain & Slow Trains

    Again, another refreshingly thoughtful post, Alphatheta. I cannot, and choose not, to disagree with either your observations or conclusions. I would point out, in a spirit of optimism, that we do have a record of Scorsese commenting on "the tragedy of 76" with The Last Waltz, which captures as glorious a ramshackle Dylan as that appeared on the spring stages of 1976 with the Rolling Thunder players.

    But I only point that out to cheer you up...certainly a project that would be governed by the arc that you describe would be worthwhile. Of course, given that 1976 does not offer the skits and scenes filmed during the fall of 1975 that will, presumably, make up the "fever dream" of the "Bob Dylan story" that Scorsese is telling, we might be able to perceive the arc that you describe when we view this new documentary alongside Hard Rain, in much the same way that this arc is presently apparent by viewing Renaldo & Clara alongside Hard Rain (more so than the Fort Collins footage, which seems to present a RTR show that is much more akin to the 1975 shows, at least to my eyes and ears).

    I remember reading years ago in the anthology Wanted Man that Dylan was shooting scenes and skits with Howard Alk in 1981. It would be interesting to extend the arc that you trace from 1976 to 1981 and see the story that emerged. I wonder when that footage will become available? At one point I would have thought perhaps never, but since the announcement about the Bob Dylan archive three years ago, I am now hopeful that many recordings and films that we have only heard about or do not even suspect exist have been preserved.

    Thank you for your thoughts and musings, they have enriched this thread.
     
  3. He was the bassist for the 1976 leg including Ft. Collins show that was broadcast on TV, correct?
     
  4. It looks like it will be all 1975 and I’ll be grateful for whatever is included but I would have been much happier if it included some aspect of the 76’ leg especially the complete 1976 Ft. Collins show on DVD.
     
    mark winstanley likes this.
  5. Bobfan2

    Bobfan2 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    UK
    I think you will find they are all at Tulsa
     
  6. Bobfan2

    Bobfan2 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    UK
    If someone has heard them then someone else owns them!
     
  7. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    Well it is absolutely certain that "someone" heard the JWW sessions, as there were certainly people at the session and those who retained the tapes.
     
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  8. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    i thought he was part of it all along but may be wrong. Met Rob many years after all that.
     
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  9. granola

    granola Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    21. My pre-order was canceled by (insert seller’s name here)...

    Import CDs. UPC for the listed Japan set was (is): 4547366400052
     
  10. FingerPickin'Triumph

    FingerPickin'Triumph Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
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  11. DmitriKaramazov

    DmitriKaramazov Senior Member

    21. No spooky organ!

    :yikes: :cussing: JOKING!
     
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  12. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    22. the cd's fall out of their spindles....bad design. doesn't fit on the shelf.
     
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  13. asdf35

    asdf35 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin TX
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  14. Spencer R

    Spencer R Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oxford, MS
    I share your fascination with this era, but see Taxi Driver just as much as part of the bad or decline phase of the culture as Star Wars. I agree that Idiot Wind (and Neil Young’s Ambulance Blues) are interesting examples of artists identifying, or perhaps even anticipating , the cultural shift that you mention in its very early stages.
     
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  15. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    I told my wife to budget $200-$300 per year for purchase of Bob Dylan CDs.

    That is way down from the days of bootlegs at $40 a pop.

    At least now, the SONY executives are enjoying my bread.

    It's Sourdough Bread.
     
  16. shadow blaster

    shadow blaster Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scandinavia
    Yeah, Rob Stoner played bass starting in July 75, the Desire album, appeared on both RTR legs and the initial Far East leg of the 78 tour. So he appears on the Budokan album as well. Left the band after that, around March 78.
     
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  17. jvs52

    jvs52 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    At least one well known collector has a copy of the JWH tapes. So it probably circulated in a closed circle of some collector's.
     
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  18. Mbd77

    Mbd77 Collect ‘Em All!

    Location:
    London
    I think to some extent they might think that either the EU law will change in the interim years (unlikely - considering there was an official review which said that this should stay as it is) or the EU as a political/governmental body will eventually dissolve in its current form (more likely given all the stuff that’s going with it), with local regulatory arrangements for copyright in European countries falling in line with the larger players (the U.S.A.). If that’s *part* of the reason why some things are going to be left out of copyright then I think again it’s not the best move - any change now would require retrospective application of the law for anything that has fallen out of copyright during the period where the current law applies. Generally that doesn’t happen in any kind of law.

    They should’ve put this out, and should continue to put out unreleased material as per the 50 year rule. The ‘use it or lose it’ argument is a fair one, I think.

    By the way, Sony don’t know what collectors have. If they allow stuff to fall out of copyright, they’re in for a very, very big shock in a few years time.
     
  19. Beatlebug

    Beatlebug Another box set won't do any harm

    Location:
    Garswood, UK
    Not wanting to change the course of the thread, apologies in advance, but would the UK leaving the EU in a few weeks (God help us) have any bearing on the UKs position with regard to EU copyright laws? Would any changes have any effect on future Dylan releases?
     
  20. Mbd77

    Mbd77 Collect ‘Em All!

    Location:
    London
    Not really. The directive aspect of it would no longer apply, but as it’s written into u.k. law via the directive, it would simply be carried over until such time/circumstances where it’s reviewed under u.k. law if there was a reason or appetite for any changes then those could be made without EU consultation. I wouldn’t imagine it’s high on the priority list. The EU regulation would still apply for every other EU member, so copyright extensions would (should) still be released in those territories to ensure protection.
     
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  21. Incredible career. I had no idea.

    From Wikipedia:

    Stoner started his career backing up various artists in New York City. His work can be heard on Don McLean's classic "American Pie".

    In 1973 he began a solo career that would eventually land him a contract with Epic Records in Nashville and later with MCA Records who released a critically acclaimed solo album, Patriotic Duty, in 1980[4] Stoner also recorded an album of his original songs for Sun Records in the early 1980s.

    In the summer of 1975 he was hired as bandleader, opening act and bass player in Bob Dylan's band. He played with Dylan during the Rolling Thunder Revue tour and on the Far East leg of Dylan's 1978 World Tour. His singing and playing is featured on many Bob Dylan recordings.

    After quitting touring life with Dylan, he resumed his solo career. He is still active and giving guitar lessons in Rockland County, New York. He has played with such diverse artists as Chris Spedding, Link Wray, Robert Gordon, Chuck Berry, and Joni Mitchell.

    Stoner has appeared and/or recorded with: Bob Dylan, Link Wray, Chuck Berry, Chris Spedding, Ringo Starr, Robert Gordon, Bruce Springsteen, Don McLean, Emmylou Harris, B.J. Thomas, The Jordanaires, D.J. Fontana, Carl Perkins, Tim Hardin, Joni Mitchell, Joan Baez, Pete Seeger, Roger McGuinn, Levon Helm, Billy Idol, Michael Brecker, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Rick Danko, Robbie Robertson, Carlos Santana, Eric Clapton, Doug Sahm, Ed Sanders (The Fugs), Gene Cornish (The Young Rascals), Sylvain Sylvain, Johnny Thunders (New York Dolls), David Olney, Jerry Garcia, Kinky Friedman, Marc Ribot, T-Bone Burnett, Mick Ronson, Steve Ferrone, Jimmy Vivino, Anton Fig, Henry Gross, Allen Ginsberg, Lou Reed, Bland Simpson, Bobby Neuwirth, Moon Martin, Jon Paris, Bobby Nathan, John Herald, Scarlet Rivera, Larry Campbell, Tony Garnier, Pete Farndon (The Pretenders), Topper Headon (The Clash), Kenny Malone(Elvis Presley), Richie Havens, Hank DeVito, Keith Lentin, Howie Wyeth, Bobby Chouinard, Murray Weintraub, Angel Rissoff (The Planotones), The Del-Vikings, Steve Holly (Wings), Denny Seiwell (Wings), John Siomos (Peter Frampton), Richie Cannatta (Billy Joel), Ramblin' Jack Elliott, Billy Cross, Don Covay, Hank Ballard, David Mansfield, Ian Wallace (King Crimson), Steve Gadd, Luther Rix, Tommy Allsup (Buddy Holly), Stan Bronstein (John Lennon), Paul Evans, Ronnie Hawkins, Alan Pasqua (The Tony Williams Lifetime), Walter Davis Jr. (Charlie Parker), Gary Chester, Steve Douglas, Garland Jeffreys, Arlen Roth, Jake Jacobs, Bernard Purdie, Jennifer O'Neill, Robin Williams, Rick Derringer, Kenny Aaronson, Dan Rothstein, Rick Marotta(Steely Dan), Buzz Feiten, Arno Hecht (Rolling Stones), Crispin Cioe, Chris Parker, Frank Vicari, Aynsley Dunbar, Rick Shlosser, Alan Schwartzberg, Sugar Blue, John Cale, Phil Lee, Gary Burke (Joe Jackson), Mark Mothersbaugh (Devo)
     
  22. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product

    That dvd would be essential for me to be interested in this set.
     
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  23. musicaner

    musicaner Forum Resident

    I dont recall the mid to late 70s so fondly. if you lived in NYC you had a 50-50 chance of making back home.
    I dont know about the mid to late 70s being so great, living in NYC there was a 50 5o chance of making it back home if you went out at night.
     
    NYMets41 likes this.
  24. musicaner

    musicaner Forum Resident

    Stoner didnt quit Dylan he was fired.
     
  25. Mbd77

    Mbd77 Collect ‘Em All!

    Location:
    London
    Suddenly there’s loads of old Rolling Thunder bootlegs on eBay....:sigh:
     

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