Headphone lovers, what do you love, what do you have, Head-Fi fans 2018 edition.

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by npc210, Jan 14, 2018.

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  1. schugh

    schugh Forum Resident

    The Woo WA8 has a DAC built into it.
    Sounds fine to me.
     
    Monsterzero likes this.
  2. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    I can see the photo there in the head-fi thread. Very neat.

    The amp has more sockets than tubes. How does that work? I assume that means that for any tube configuration you're always going to have some sockets unused?
     
  3. Monsterzero

    Monsterzero Down at Dino's Bar & Grill

    Location:
    Sea of Tranquility
    So,again on the left I can put a rectifier tube. In that photo im using a 4 volt version of the GEC U52,which is a killer rectifier. I can remove that and use a HEXFRED instead,which is essentially a solid state rectifier.

    In the very front right theres one socket,where I can put 6sn7/12sn7/25sn7. Theres a volatge switch in the back of the amp that allows me to use the different volt drivers. The benefit of using 12 or 25 volt drivers is often times theyre much cheaper than the 6 volt versions.

    Directly behind that theres 2 more sockets which is for C3G tubes,instead of the sn7s. In that photo im using EL8s w/ adapters in the C3G slots. With the EL8s I can also pop an sn7,making it a triple driver config...thats a lot of fun,tons of reverb and musicality.

    Behind that is six more sockets,where i can use 6-6bx7s or 6bl7s. Or I can use standard power tubes,like the 5998s,6080s,6as7g or 6336. For those tubes I can only use 2,so yes there will be 4 empty sockets. Currently running GEC 6as7g,pretty much holy grail power tube.

    For low ohm dynamics or planars I remove the 6as7g tubes and use the 6336 tubes. Very few amps can handle those tubes. because few amps can use the 6336,they can be had pretty cheaply too.
     
  4. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    Fascinating. The amp is more configurable and can handle more configurations than I thought. Now I'm even more curious to take a dive into that head-fi thread.

    I've got a Cavalli Liquid Glass hybrid amp that has a switch to allow the use of either 6 volt or 12 volt tubes. I didn't realize the Glenn OTL also has a switch to allow using different tube voltages.
     
  5. Monsterzero

    Monsterzero Down at Dino's Bar & Grill

    Location:
    Sea of Tranquility
    The standard,basic Glenn doesnt have the switch,but he can put in pretty much anything you want to have.
    Its a helluva amp,for not much cash,relatively speaking.
     
  6. bcaulf

    bcaulf Forum Resident

    Well the Meze 99 Noir is $200 on Massdrop and it’s the same headphone :) it is rather warm and the bass takes a little bit to get used to but it sounds great. I also like the B&O H6 which is more neutral, thinner mids but very smooth and balanced.
     
    npc210 likes this.
  7. RJL2424

    RJL2424 Forum Resident

    Those suggestions were sound ones. However, I could not demo any of those because I live in a relatively transit-poor part of the area, and I cannot legally drive. In addition, my finances are iffy: Right now I have only an entry-level retail store job, and the amount of pay might not be enough for much if any sort of equipment upgrade. As such, Guitar Center is the only store even remotely close to me where I could demo headphones - and in the $200-ish price range they carry only the studio 'phones which might need more power just to produce adequate volume. So those choices are definitely out by default.

    And by the way, the demo headphones are "permanently" wired into their demo console. So what sounds good there might not sound as good or even good at all with my current equipment.
     
  8. Monsterzero

    Monsterzero Down at Dino's Bar & Grill

    Location:
    Sea of Tranquility
    Yup,I understand. Being into great sound and not having an endless supply of cash,nor the ability to try before you buy makes owning headphones a challenge.

    But..............Amazon has a liberal return policy.
     
    RJL2424 likes this.
  9. RJL2424

    RJL2424 Forum Resident

    Thanks. But it's tough to even return headphones via shipping. I live nowhere close to even a package drop-off point. The truth is, since I could not drive, I could not get to one at all unless I commute several hours each way. So I would order from Amazon only if I am sure that I'm going to keep the headphones forever. (Sure, I could return items ordered from Amazon through a Kohl's store, but there is no way that I could reach even the nearest such location without requiring a very long walk or multiple bus trips.)

    As such, I am now going to shy away from extremely low-impedance headphones even on an unamped smartphone: None of the full-sized headphones with an impedance of less than 32 Ohms sound anywhere near as good as higher-impedance headphones do - even out of my current smartphone's headphone jack. With the exception of the MDR-V6/7506, Sony is notorious for making most of its full-sized headphones with too low an impedance (24 Ohms). This is that company's attempt to make its larger, "higher-end" headphones more "usable" out of a portable music player - but then, it runs the risk of having the headphones' impedance too close to the output impedance of the portable player's headphone out! That actually worsens sound quality, making the sound muddy and indistinct. (I experienced this with my pair of the old MDR-7509 headphones, which are rated at only 24 Ohms impedance. And similarly, I would not like the MDR-7510 or MDR-7520 much if at all because they are also rated at 24 Ohms impedance.)

    And full-sized hi-fi equipment and even many higher-end headphone amps have an output impedance that's actually higher than those low-impedance headphones themselves! That really mucks up the sound of even medium-impedance headphones, and causes noticeably distorted sound with low-impedance headphones - and those outs require very high-impedance headphones to minimize the risk of murky sound.

    On the other hand, a headphone with an impedance that's too high will simply need greater output voltage just to sound adequately loud. This is why the DT 990 PRO 250-Ohm model that I auditioned at Guitar Center isn't very suitable for my usage because the output would barely suffice for quieter music with greater dynamics even in a relatively quiet environment.

    And maybe I'm beginning to feel that the AKG K553 and the Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO 80-Ohm that I liked in my audition might not be suitable for my usage because they have even more boosted treble than my ATH-M50x or my MDR-7506. And yes, I am sensitive to overboosted mid- and high-treble. In this case, then maybe I shall bin (put in drawer) both my M50x and my 7506, and get myself a set of the M40x to replace them both.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
  10. Blusmbl

    Blusmbl Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Plymouth, MI
    I have a Bottlehead crack for an amp and a set of Beyerdynamic DT-770's and DT-880's, both 250 ohm, for use with it. Of the two I think I prefer the 770's better but both are decent.

    Also have a pair of the 32 ohm DT770's, they are quite bright and I only use them with my iphone.

    I don't notice how bright any of the Beyers are until I compare them to anything else.

    A friend has many pairs of headphones, his favorite right now are the Koss ESP-950 electrostatics.
     
  11. RJL2424

    RJL2424 Forum Resident

    I decided against another full-sized headphone for now. I remember that I have a pair of the open-air on-ear Sennheiser PX 100 ii headphones that I have not used much because the foam pads on them had disintegrated. So I decided to order two replacement pairs of earpads instead of yet another pair of big headphones at this time.

    When the time is right for something different, then maybe I will upgrade my big cans.
     
  12. RJL2424

    RJL2424 Forum Resident

    Now I know why I wasn't blown away by the ATH-M50x:

    It's not the headphones or my smartphone per se; it's my ears. You see, I was so used to headphones that boost up the upper midrange and lower treble - right in that part of the region where normal human hearing is most sensitive to. My Sony MDR-7506 is notorious for doing just that.

    And yesterday I went back to Guitar Center to listen to the headphones on their rack, and at that point I discovered why the ATH-M50x sounded so wrong on their rack: Very high output impedance out of that headphone distribution amp. I know for a fact that my own pair sounded a lot better than that on my own equipment. So, I am blaming the impedance mismatch between the amp and the headphones for such muddy and distorted sound. But that does not explain why the M40x sounded better through that same amp. Maybe that model did not boost the bass as much as the M50x does.
     
  13. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    The ATH-M50x has a fairly flat impedance curve. Link to InnerFidelity measurments here: ATH-M50x (pdf)

    The frequency balance of the headphones get altered where the headphone has a big bump in its impedance and plugged into an amp with a high output impedance. If the impedance curve of the headphones is flat then the overall frequency balance will stay relatively normal.

    What also changes when using a high output impedance amp is the electrical damping factor. A poor damping factor can result in looser and less controlled bass. Some headphones suffer from this more than others. Perhaps you're hearing a difference in damping factor when using the headphone amp at the guitar shop?
     
  14. RJL2424

    RJL2424 Forum Resident

    Yep. The poor damping factor also contributed to what I heard over there.

    Now, Sony's full-sized headphones are either too sizzly (lower treble boost) or have an overly low nominal impedance (only 24 Ohms, sometimes even lower). The latter results in (relatively speaking) poor damping factor regardless of what those headphones are plugged into. No wonder why my MDR-7509 doesn't sound very good out of anything (but it plays very loud). By a similar token, my MDR-ZX310AP also has a very low nominal impedance, and a similarly loose and murky sound - but I forgive that headphone because it was cheap (I paid about $25 for it). However, it is unforgivable in a $200+ headphone.
     
  15. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    Don't get too hung up on impedance curve measurements of headphones and the output impedance measurement of an amp to define the sound quality you ultimately hear. Not all headphones with similar impedance curves are affected to the same degree when plugged into an amp with a high output impedance. There is a subjective factor that needs to be considered.

    I have an amp that has two headphone jacks (Cavalli Liquid Fire). One is at about 1/4 ohm and one is at 50 ohm. The 50 ohm jack has resistors to pad down the volume a bit because the amp does have a high-ish gain that makes efficient headphones a little too loud with small changes in the volume knob. Otherwise it's the same amp powering the same two headphone jacks. One jack at low impedance, one jack with 50 ohm resistors.

    Not all headphones get affected to the same degree when switching between the low impedance jack and the 50 ohm impedance jack. My Audeze LCD-2 headphones have a flat impedance. The Audeze headphones sound pretty much the same in the 1/4 ohm jack and the 50 ohm jack. The difference is damping factor. The 50 ohm jack is a little looser in the bass and a little softer transient sound overall. But it's really a minor sonic change in the grand scheme of things. Really minor. I'd rather listen to the LCD-2 headphones with the 50 ohm jack with my Liquid Fire amp than listen to the LCD-2 headphones with an amp like a Schiit Jotenheim with a 0.1 ohm output impedance. The sonic qualities of the amp are way more important than the output impedance when pairing headphones and amp.
     
  16. Monsterzero

    Monsterzero Down at Dino's Bar & Grill

    Location:
    Sea of Tranquility
    Planar headphones,like the LCD-2 are less troublesome with impedance mismatch than dynamic headphones.
    You plug an LCD-2 or HE-500 into an old vintage receiver and they sound great. You take a dynamic headphone with a similar low ohm rating and it sounds like dirt.
     
  17. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    Not all low ohm dynamic headphones will change to the same degree when plugged into a higher output impedance amp. It really depends on the headphone. I've tried various low impedance dynamics in the low impedance and 50 ohm impedance jacks of my Cavalli amp and not all of them react the same or are affected to the same degree. It is not a given that a low impedance dynamic will sound like dirt with a higher output impedance amp.

    The interesting part with comparing the LCD-2 headphone with low and higher impedance jacks in the same amp is that the difference is damping factor. And damping factor doesn't make a significant difference in the grand scheme of things. The damping factor is noticeable sonically. But not the most important thing to be concerned about. Don't get too hung up on the objective impedance measurements. The subjective listening needs to be taking into account as well. There are some pairings that would get dismissed based on objective measurements but end up being very good listening.
     
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  18. Monsterzero

    Monsterzero Down at Dino's Bar & Grill

    Location:
    Sea of Tranquility
    Well, I made it a point to specify vintage receivers,even though that isnt what the question was specifically about. The only solid state amps I use for headphones are receivers from days gone by,which can have 560 to 680ohm(!) rated resistors in line into the jack. Every low ohm headphone ive tried,from ATH AD2000s to Grados to AKG K701 come out sounding like a bass bloated mess.
    In the past Ive owned the Gilmore Lite Mark ll and a Schiit Magni 2 Uber,both of which did the job fine for any low ohm headphone.
    I prefer the raw power of the old receivers vs. dedicated SS headphone amps. To come close to that power in a dedicated HP amp will cost one dearly.

    Actually the only headphone I currently own that i use solid state amps for are the K240 Sextett,which is a power hungry beast anyways,so receivers are perfect.
     
  19. RJL2424

    RJL2424 Forum Resident

    And not all dynamic headphones are affected equally by high output impedance. It's just that the M50x is more sensitive than many other dynamic headphones to the change in the damping factor that comes with the increase in output impedance. The M40x, on the other hand, is less sensitive than most to such a damping factor change (this doesn't mean that the M40x will necessarly excel out of anything; it just means that that headphone will sound relatively the same out of most headphone outs).

    And as I noted above, my 24-Ohm Sony MDR-7509, if it doesn't sound very good out of a near-zero-Ohm output impedance, then it will only sound decent out of very few amps. That is my biggest complaint about the 7509 or most of the other 24-Ohm Sonys.

    And now I know why my MDR-7506 sounded a bit thin out of a zero-Ohm impedance headphone out: Its impedance curve rises from a nominal of 63 Ohms to more than 100 Ohms around 100 Hz. This is an attempt to make a nominally low-impedance headphone sound reasonably good out of a wider range of headphone outs, without necessarily excelling out of most of them.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  20. muletrane

    muletrane Forum Resident

    Location:
    NEPA
    Very happy!

    My favorite are the Grado GS1000i headphones.

    Also own...

    Grado RS2e and SR325e
    Hifiman HE4xx
    AKG K7xx
     
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  21. HenryFly

    HenryFly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    I bought the LG V30 smartphone for the QUAD Hifi DAC and therefore avoiding the need to have another component to drive the Sennheiser HD660s I use at home. Then I have HD569s closed backs for the road that I trick the LG DAC into thinking are 50Ω plus impedance cans. They're rated 23Ω.
     
  22. Claude Benshaul

    Claude Benshaul Forum Resident

    I received my HIFIMAN edition XX headphones last week and...

    I don't like them. I don't like them at all.

    There are two main problems with the XX, the more trivial one concern the choice of cable packed in the box. The apt description for this cable is "revolting". It's limp yet not particularly flexible and covered with a rubbery material which is very unpleasant to touch. I can live with it as well as get used to the 90° cable connector and that's one of these problems that goes away once you throw enough money at them, so it's really not worth discussing it much.

    The main problem I have with these headphones is that they are too loose to stay properly on my head. It's actually embarrassing because wearing them I feel as if I have two pancakes hanging loosely on both sides of my head, or that I automagically transformed to a cocker spaniel. I also have a HE4XX which shares the same headbands and the HE4XX clamps correctly, are not loose and fit well. Maybe HIFIMAN or Massdrop decided to give me a boon and added an inch or two of metal strip to my headband, maybe these headphones are only intended to be used by heroic figures with larger than life heads, I really don't know what happened there but I can't put these headphones on my head, which kind of makes them irrelevant for me.

    Sight...
     
  23. billnunan

    billnunan Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire
    You have perfectly described my experience with the HE-400i headphones. Terrible fit so they get no use.

    Sigh...
     
  24. DonnyMe

    DonnyMe Forum Resident

    Location:
    SC
    Then why don't you sell them and get something that fits and you'll use? So you might take a loss, but if you get something you like and enjoy it's a win win. You get to enjoy your new phones and someone gets new cans too. Put them up for sale here on the site. I'm sure someone will pick them up.
     
  25. ivor

    ivor Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I picked up a used Schiit Loki DSD DAC... which is kind of weird because I have been on the fence about a DACs to replace a decent card I had in my Window 7 PC. But anyway, I did the Fortunate Son test as suggested by our host here: SH Spotlight - Test the midrange purity of your system and/or your computer speakers using Bing Crosby!

    The DSD files were ripped from my SACD, and on my Sennheiser HD660s I can get a sense of the echo bouncing off the back wall. Not completely 3D, but pretty cool. This is using Colibri on a mac to play the files, stock headphone cable and Asgard 2 headphone amp. If I change any one element of the chain, I don't get the same spatial sense: 44.1 PCM from the hybrid SACD, DSD on the Pono to the 660s (even using a balanced cable), or with Oppo PM2 headphones from the Asgard.

    I'm sure there are other combinations that achieve the effect, but it's a data point. This gave me enough faith in the Schiit sound that I sprung for a multibit Bifrost for my PCM DAC, measurements be damned. :D
     
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