What's with the idea that contemporary hip hop and pop lack melody?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by lc1995, May 12, 2019.

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  1. strippies

    strippies Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    First rule about music in general: there are no rules...
     
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  2. Freedom Rider

    Freedom Rider Senior Member

    Location:
    Russia
    A melody is a "rhythmically organized sequence of single tones so related to one another as to make up a particular phrase or idea"

    This track has that. Whether you personally can hum it or not is irrelevant.
     
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  3. BDC

    BDC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tacoma
    Rap isn't my thing and I don't own any, but when it crosses my path I'm not going out of my way not to enjoy it. I'm a very casual fan, I guess. Typically I like old stuff from the 90's and 80's Run DMC. I thought the auto tune disaster in the OP was unbearable. That said, Rap isn't much about melody traditionally, but at times is bringing an important message in it's lyrics. There are at times, some damn clever rhythmic hooks in the rapping itself. I liken rap music passages to drones, allowing the vocals flexibility as the lead instrument. A lot of rap tends (from my very novice listening experience) to hang onto a single key for lengthy passages. A useful thing in rock and blues too. Rap is massive and culturally significant, so I give respect. I've heard newer stuff that I thought was pretty good, which was all about a tight azz groove and a lot of old school R&B influence.
     
  4. drad dog

    drad dog A Listener

    Location:
    USA
    yes
     
  5. drad dog

    drad dog A Listener

    Location:
    USA
    There is no lack of rhythm in the music in question in the OP. Although it might not be as interesting as we are assured it must be. If there is no melod(ic originality)y and the words are kind of familiar, then a claim must be made that the rhythms are the justification for the celebration.

    The melody if it exists is more of a riff, a repetitive phrase that has no arc. The rhythm is usually a medium for the music. This melody is flattened out across genres it sounds like to me. I could hear the OP track as country or pop too. It's just a minimum melodic phrase to achieve "protagonism" in the song.

    SO if they give up on trying to make melody original, then they are placing a lot of emphasis on other things: rhymes, production, OPM (other peoples music), exoticism. If you are going to listen to it you have to find virtues in that. I listen to stuff that has minimal elements of melody sometimes, because I'm stretching out my listening, but to Jazz, or classical usually. In pop it doesn't work for me.

    I guess music exists without certain elements at certain times. I find rhythm to be the element that is the least critical of the three. The dance of the three is the art form.
     
  6. drad dog

    drad dog A Listener

    Location:
    USA
    There is a distinction between "does not exist" and "exists in vestigial form but is not interesting enough." I think that's the meaning of it in this thread.
     
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  7. drad dog

    drad dog A Listener

    Location:
    USA
    The same idea repeated for 4 min? They are redefining melody way down is the point being made here, aside from straw men about the "enemies of progress".

    Hip hop's been around for what 40 years? Plenty of time to develop an actual intelligent opinion, even for a boomer.

    I never complained about the lyrical content, except that it is banal. I don't listen to the lyrics in rock very closely either, and I don't finger wag. But they are just rhyming and not making so much of musical interest. The offense in popular music is banality and predictability. I find the sound of hip hop to be much more conformist than revolutionary.
     
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  8. Bobby Buckshot

    Bobby Buckshot Heavy on the grease please

    Location:
    Southeastern US
    Hot Take alert. So anyone can do it then right?

    Reminds me of other posts I've read on these forums regarding bebop as "just blowing notes as fast as they can."

    Hilariously bad stuff. You don't like it, cool. We get it. But to actively, at near relentless pace make efforts to diminish the music as an art form is protesting way too much.
     
  9. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    No. Actually it's not true. Melodies that made it to pop songs were more complex until the 21st century. That's when we settled into this 4 -5 note thing.
     
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  10. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    I said most, and I don't consider Prince, D'Angelo, or Meshell N'degeocello to be within the modern set of artists. Beynonce fits into the "no sophisticated melody" quite often. Not always, though. Rihanna pretty much invented it. I didn't make a sweeping generalization. I would have said ALL if I did.
     
  11. manco

    manco Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I think songs like Bohemian Rhapsody are the anomaly and spoil people into thinking songs can have that much net melodic content. Even Queen started reducing the amount of melody as they progressed into the 1980s. The modern ear can only take so many notes. I think I'm correct in saying that?
     
  12. whiskeyvengeance

    whiskeyvengeance Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Yeah, and what's with how simplistic lyrics have gotten nowadays? I swear these mop-top guys don't sing anything other than "yeah yeah yeah" half the time.

    Oh, sorry, you said 21st, not 20th. My bad.
     
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  13. WMTC

    WMTC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Okay, I'll put it this way: I went to Prom last weekend. About half the music played was discernible - that is, it was easy to tell when a new song started. Most of those tracks were classic rock & disco. The rest were "pop" hits of the last 10 years or so, with a proper melody. But when the hip hop/rap came on, not only was it pretty much undancable, but it was nearly impossible to tell when one song ended and another started. I don't regularly listen to rap/hip-hop, but my impression from having it blasted in my ears for about two hours was that it was all pretty similar, and a lot of the "lyrics" were pretty disgusting - and that was at a school dance.
    I'm just stating my impression & experience here - not passing judgment about people who listen to this music, nor trying to offend anyone...
     
  14. manco

    manco Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Oh look another 'old man yelling at the clouds'.
     
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  15. uzn007

    uzn007 Pack Rat

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    Thanks for contributing your expertise.
     
  16. caio vaz

    caio vaz Senior Member

    Location:
    Brasil
    Recently they asked Burt bacharach if he thinks that if he started to make music now, he will be as famous as he was. He said no, because nowadays pop music is lack of romance and based on top hop/rap. He said that he may make sucess just on gay club haha.
     
  17. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    The modern person is ADD when it comes to music (due to so many other self imposed distractions). They don't listen just to listen. It's a secondary thing, so they don't have room in their brains to process more complex melodies. Bohemian Rhapsody wasn't an anomaly melodically. Maybe with song structure, but not with melody.
     
  18. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Everybody: There are three main elements to music: melody, rhythm, and harmony. All of these are important. Some songs have one or more elements emphasized and some do not have one or more elements.

    Each of us gives a certain element more important than another. They are subjective values that are usually influenced by what we were indoctrinated with when we were young. Dor some, melody is the most important component. For others, rhythm is the most important. For others, they must have harmony.

    For the reasons I mentioned above, this entire thread is silly, and really just gives some an opportunity to bash music or even entire genres of music they don't like. It's a negative thread, and the gorts have said that they wish to crack down on the constant negativity of late. So, why haven't they shut this one down yet? Could it be that they just aren't paying attention or no one has reported anything because they want to see a cyber fight or continue to bash music? Maybe I should tip them off. Hmmmmm...
     
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  19. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Cite your reference, please. I have a hard time believing he would have said that.
     
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  20. drad dog

    drad dog A Listener

    Location:
    USA
    Difficulty in rhyming? Yes it's there for sure. I will venture that it is a lot easier for them than it would be for me though. But what does that have to do with the melody or the music?
     
  21. WMTC

    WMTC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Hey, I'm 17, actually, not an "old man." As I said, I didn't mean to offend anybody - that's my honest impression of what I heard. Additionally, as I said, there was a decent amount of current pop that was discernible and danceable. Just not so much the rap & hip-hop. To each their own. I'm sure there are people who would say that The Rolling Stones have no melody in comparison to Beethoven. And they might be right. That was just my $.10, and nothing more. That's the beauty of music - everyone experiences it differently.
     
  22. drad dog

    drad dog A Listener

    Location:
    USA
    Can it be an honest conversation? Plenty of music and bands get inspected closely and severely here. Is hip hop above music criticism?
     
  23. Bobby Buckshot

    Bobby Buckshot Heavy on the grease please

    Location:
    Southeastern US
    Ha, you tell me man. I was quoting your post.
     
  24. uzn007

    uzn007 Pack Rat

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    You want to criticize a particular hip hop song, or a particular hip hop artist, or a particular hip hop album, go right ahead. Criticizing an entire genre that you don't happen to like usually just exposes the ignorance of the critic, though.
     
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  25. drad dog

    drad dog A Listener

    Location:
    USA
    Not that I can see. I said that the vocals don't add to the music much. You said But it's difficult.
    People criticize genres of music all the time. Is Hip hop above musical critique?
     
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