Ethernet Cables in for evaluation

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Puma Cat, May 17, 2019.

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  1. You mentioned you received two Ethernet cables in for evaluation, did you purchase them both and will be returning the one you don’t prefer?
     
  2. Puma Cat

    Puma Cat Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    East Bay, CA
    Hi Optimize,
    I just read very favorable things about the Supra Cat 8 cable on Audio Bacon. The review was very favorable, so I am going to order 1 or 2 cables. I can use them in a couple places if they turn out to be as good as Jay Luong says. I'll keep you appraised. Cheers.
     
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  3. Puma Cat

    Puma Cat Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    East Bay, CA
    Hi Bayou,

    Thanks for your reply and comments. I like my uRendu very much, too. I am thinking, though, of auditioning the Innuos Zen Mk3 Mini.

    Cheers, mate.
     
  4. Puma Cat

    Puma Cat Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    East Bay, CA
    Hi Shawn,

    No, both cables are from the lending library at The Cable Company. I find its a great and very affordable way to evaluate cables before plumking down money.

    They were "rented" in for this comparison study; I'm still evaluating Ethernet cables and will likely order in the WW Platinum Starlight and Audioquest Diamond from The Cable Company as well.

    Both the WW Starlight and the Audioquest Vodka are very nice-sounding Ethernet cables. Regarding the WW Starlight Cat 8, I just read a review of this cable at Audio Bacon and I would concur with Jay Luong's comments with the time I've evaluated it so far:

    • Pros
      • Pinpoint accurate as far as imaging
      • Quiet background
      • Wide soundstage
      • Detailed
    • Cons
      • A bit bright, sibilant, and peaky
      • Light on bass
      • Tone and timbre is inaccurate
      • Might remove music along with the noise to achieve the quieter background
    Of the two, so far, I prefer the Audioquest Vodka; it has all the clarity and quietness of the Wireworld, but there is more "meat on the bones" with respect to the musical presentation. This doesn't come as a surprise, I've owned and used several different Audioquest cables and like them very much (almost my entire loom of interconnects is Audioquest Columbia and Colorado, and I used a AQ Diamond USB for over 5 years).

    I've also ordered a couple of runs of Supra Cat 8, 1M and 2M. I will evaluate this cable as well, and if its as good as the review I've read of it, it will likely go from my Mac Mini server to the router. and the other run might go into an Ethernet switch if I ever find I need one (I'll get an AQVox or SoTM Ethernet switch if it comes to that).
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
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  5. jmczaja

    jmczaja Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    LOL
     
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  6. Hooch

    Hooch Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ajax, Canada
    In my own studies of cables, including ethernet cables, everyone I respect insists that they’re simple linear devices. If connectors attached to the interconnect cables are the wrong nominal impedance, the signal can’t pass without some negative effect but it’s nothing to do with the wire. I haven’t yet figured out how a digital signal passing through an ethernet cable can be positively or negatively affected even if a length of CAT5 or 6 has faulty shielding that admits noise. The component at the receiving end filters noise too. So far I’ve founded that good quality CAT 6 (meaning a high quality shielding, proper pairing, proper dielectric, secure termination with a high quality connector) prevents noise from interfering. If a component at the source end is generating unwanted noise, that’s a component issue. But a piece of wire can’t self-filter the signal its carrying. In every measurement I’ve been able to do so far of unterminated wire, the signal that comes out is identical to the signal that goes in, including noise loads/artifacts. No wire I’ve tried - despite what the maker says in its white papers and marketing - at any price, no matter what the physical configuration, has any effect on the signal unless the wire has screwy-high capacitance or screwy-high inductance. So far, I’ve had a hard time telling any ethernet cables apart, but I’m trying. Admittedly, interconnects and speaker cables are higher on my shopping list right now, but ethernet is next for me personally.
     
  7. Puma Cat

    Puma Cat Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    East Bay, CA
    The Audioquest Vodka is really a lovely-sounding Ethernet cable; sweeter and more nicely fleshed out than the Wireworld Starlight. And a solar system apart from that ghastly BJC Belden Cat6e cable.
     
  8. Hooch

    Hooch Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ajax, Canada
    Cool. You’re a professional scientist - you mentioned it in an earlier post - so I’m interested in hearing your opinion about technical reasons why the AQ Vodka, Wireworld Starlight and Blue Jeans differ to your hearing. I’m trying to figure out what to test for and what specs to look for in the first place so I can narrow my choices. I have a limited budget, so I really can’t shell out cash for three or four cables at a time in order to choose one. Limited time too, to run back and forth to my dealers. Also, if I’m going to do try-outs and returns I’ve got to be super careful not to mark or damage the cables so that anything I return can be sold by the dealer after for full price.
     
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  9. Puma Cat

    Puma Cat Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    East Bay, CA
    I'm not going to get into any discussions regarding the technical reasons why AQ Vodka, AQ Cinnamon, & Wireworld Starlight sound different to me, as I don't know anything about how any of them are designed, constructed, or the materials used. It's also an intellectual pit-fall that inevitably leads back to the old "cables don't matter" trope, and I've already said, I'm simply not going to go there.

    Nor, do I care as to why they might sound different, I only care that they do and I have to figure out which one I want to live with in the long-term (it sure as h*ll isn't that BJC Belden Ethernet cable, though. Yeesh!).

    I am simply going to listen to them and share my impressions. All I care about is how they sound in my system in my room.

    As for specs, I don't give a rat *ss about specs; this is the whole problem as to how HiFi Reviews and Audio magazine lost credibilty with serious listeners in 70s and 80s. A Crown DC300 was regarded by these mags for many years as the best-measuring amp they had tested; what they never, ever did in reviews was actually listen to these amps, or they would have known a Crown DC300 sounds like *ss compared to a home-assembled Dyna Stereo 70, which measures more poorly.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
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  10. Archimago

    Archimago Forum Resident

    Gotta say that that's an unusual response for a scientist. Pretty clear that in this world there's a lot of snake oil in all manners of products.

    Also, please be careful with strawman arguments... What do old amps from the 70's have anything to do with this??? And what credibility do current magazines even have anyway???
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
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  11. Hooch

    Hooch Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ajax, Canada
    I do not think that asking “why” something provides a certain result is an intellectual pitfall. Actually, it is the exact opposite of an intellectual pitfall. That’s what I’ve been taught. As a scientist you must already know this though, so I am confused by your reaction. I never wrote that cables don’t matter or even hinted at such a thing. I wrote in this thread and in other threads that I am trying to find the best cables for my applications.

    Okay. It is your thread, but I now have the impression you are exerting extreme control over the narrative to obtain a specific reaction. That’s too restrictive for me and not the sort of thread I need to learn more about cables, so I should bow out. Thank you for your responses though.
     
  12. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    Oh neato! ::envious smiley::
     
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  13. swvahokie

    swvahokie Forum Resident

    You are asking quite a bit of a fellow audio enthusiast. Not many folks are going to have the test equipment on hand to make the tests you are requesting. Most likely, rejection of noise in all of its forms will be the biggest determinant of sound quality. Anyone that has the skills and equipment to make these measurements, is probably making cables.

    Some systems are going to be more sensitive to cables than others, and results in one system may not relate to others. At best, what the OP is doing is giving his impressions of which cables sound best in his system and trying to give a description of how they affect the sound. The only way to know in your system is try them yourself.
     
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  14. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    I'd prefer to think that cables make little or no difference, and thus no need to spend more :p
    However I've never really done such testing, it's on my agenda for "some day"-after testing the little Audio Express amp versus a behemoth Denon...
     
  15. swvahokie

    swvahokie Forum Resident

    Biggest upgrade to my system was going with the Dueland 12 ga wire as speaker cables. I would fight someone that tried to take them!
     
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  16. jfeldt

    jfeldt Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF, CA, USA
    Thank you Puma Cat for sharing your impressions. :righton:
     
  17. Puma Cat

    Puma Cat Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    East Bay, CA
    This thread is not about science. Its about my subjective experiences of listening to music. Nothing else.

    You're welcome.

    The purpose of this thread is very simple: to share my subjective listening impressions of some different Ethernet cables in a digital streaming configuration to folks who may be genuinely interested.

    Nothing more, nothing less.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
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  18. Puma Cat

    Puma Cat Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    East Bay, CA
    You're welcome. More to come in the next few days...
     
  19. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Go to another thread when people who might be genuinely interested may read and believe that a cable carrying a digital signal could improve their sound therefore pushing them to spend their hard earned money on snake oil without hearing others others have to say about the spread of nonsense???? I don't think so!

    I'll take my Vodka cables with a squirt of orange and sugar, that definitely make the sound sweeter but when I use lemon sound turns definitely bitter and just in case I am being sarcastic.
     
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  20. Sevoflurane

    Sevoflurane Forum Resident

    Everyone has biases whether they are from a scientific background or not, or whether they accept it or not. Proper scientific methodology seeks to eliminate those biases. However, the rules of this forum proscribe discussion of e.g. ABX testing so I won’t go any further in that direction.

    Having said that, if you are “simply listening, gathering empirical observations, and making comparisons” then you are subject to bias whether you choose to accept it or not.
     
  21. Archimago

    Archimago Forum Resident

    I've always thought that as hobbyists who appreciate electronic gear made based on scientific and engineering principles, the scientific perspective always plays a part in discussions. I believe you did say you are a "professional scientist" so surely there must be some curiosity to explain differences if they are to be found given this is/was part of your career.

    Anyhow, no worries. Hope you have fun.
     
  22. jmczaja

    jmczaja Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I've read some ridiculous stuff but ethernet cables sounding different from others?

    "You can picture the changes when going from the standard Cat. 5 Ethernet cable to the Cinnamon, Vodka, and Diamond as adding more and more color to a faded image. It's as if the sound blossoms more fully with the more expensive cables."

    LMAO :help:
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  23. rill

    rill Well-Known Member

    Location:
    PA
    I am interested in this, as I am possibly considering upgrading my ethernet cables as well, There are a myriad of other (expensive!) ethernet upgrades, but for now I'm starting with the cables. I will start by saying I am a big believer in good cables and have all Audioquest in my system, but I have struggled with the ethernet cable deal and how it could make a difference for my streaming only use. That said, I also have Cinnamon from the modem to the router and from the router to my streamer. Audioquest only sells the the Carbon (which is technically the next step up from the Cinnamon) in bulk so the Vodka is the next step in a premade cable. It is substantially more expensive than Cinamon, which is ok IF it makes a difference. Again my use is only for streaming Tidal Hifi and others.

    At this point, I think I have read just about every ethernet cable review, comparison and thread on the web :rolleyes: but most of them seem to be more focused on NAS use than streaming. One thing that concerns me with the Vodka, is that most of the reviews have mentioned it sounds more Forward than others. I have linked a comparison review below saying that the Vodka seems to emphasize the upper midrange, which is generally not something I want. I wonder if it has to do with the additional Silver in the cable. They loved the Vodka, however.

    The interesting thing about this review, is that it is broken up into two separate sections. First is an NAS type use, and the second is streamer use... router to streamer. It's the first time I have seen a specific and separate test, albeit short and quick, of a cable for streaming only...

    ETHERNET RJ-45 CABLES SHOOTOUT
     
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  24. james

    james Summon The Queen

    Location:
    Annapolis
    I would be shocked if the people at Audioquest thought that functioning Ethernet cables could sound different from one another. I’m going to go checkout AQ’s marketing materials, at the risk of having to take a brand of my list of possible future purchases.

    Edit: “RJ/E Cinnamon prepared Cat 7 Ethernet cables use solid 1.25% Silver conductors, which completely eliminate strand interaction, one of the biggest sources of distortion in cables, for clearer, more dynamic and involving sound.”

    Crap. Anyone. Want some Type4+ speaker cables?
     
  25. Hooch

    Hooch Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ajax, Canada
    Sorry - I must have misunderstood because you set up this thread by stating your cred as “professional scientist” and also saying that you were “competitively benchmarking” ethernet cables. When asked about the benchmarking you linked back to some business marketing theory that has nothing to do with cables, raw wire, audio, music listening or anything like that. Your sig quotes the great Louis Pasteur - “Chance favours the prepared mind” - which is a great quote, but doesn’t really support your approach to this thread.

    I am sorry to say that you seem to have unintentionally turned your own thread into a highend audio cable promotional ‘fest. So I get it now I think. I am just describing the impression I have gotten from the language you are using. I am sure it must be unintentional on your part because of your enthusiasm about the ethernet cables you are trying.

    Maybe you don’t consider technical comparisons to be any sort of scientific or competitive approach. That would be weird, but you should at least state or admit that’s how you feel. Otherwise, your posts sound like a Wireworld and Audioquest love-in. I’m not sure what “BJC” cable is so I don’t know why you hate it so much. Is it a Chinese manufacturer?
     
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