Elvis at the International Hotel Las Vegas 1969 Box Set

I must say I'm a bit dissapointed with the mix. I liked what Matt Ross-Spang did on Way Down In The Jungle Room - the sparse Jungle Room outtakes benefitted from the slapback echo etc. In Las Vegas, there were about 60 musicians and singers on stage, though. In this case, some restraint is required when mixing. To my ears, Matt Ross-Spang overdid the echo and also overcrowded the center of the stereo image. In addition, drums and bass are sometimes buried in the mix. The result is, as you say, a muffled soundscape.

The mixes seem to change a little bit from disc to disc, though. I liked the RSD mix a couple of weeks ago (now on disc 4 of the box), but I must say that I have little time for the mix of the August 21 midnight show (disc 1 of the new set). I prefer Ray Bardani's mix (found on disc 2 of the 2007 release "Viva Las Vegas") of that show by a mile. It, too, takes a more modern approach - drums centered etc. - but otherwise Bardani stayed away from the "echo chambers" and did not hide the rhythm section.

Just my 2 cents after having listened to disc 1 and some tracks on the other discs.

 

Mine too!
That's all the stock Amazon got in perhaps?
Hope it turns up. Had this kind of shenanigans with 'The Rolling Stones in Mono', Amazon let me down completely on that one. Ended up ordering from HMV instead.
Fingers crossed...

 

The problem of the "missing keyboards" on Live In Las Vegas was already overstated on this forum (the piano is there on most of the songs, very clearly audible).

But what's interesting is that the keyboards are once again missing (or mixed down into near or total inaudibility) from a few songs on the new Live 1969 mixes of the same concert.

On the songs where the piano is fundamentally essential to the songs musical arrangement, the piano is loud and clear in the mix: on both the original Live In Las Vegas mix and the new Live 1969 set.

So was the piano not recorded (or insufficiently recorded), but only on the songs that don't really need it? Was it a case of Ferrante and Ross-Spang making identical mixing decisions? Or was the piano not played on some songs for that show?

And incidentally, I tend to agree with those saying that the added echo, particularly on the spoken sections, sounds a little jarring, and could have been done without.

 

It is definitely interesting. Years ago I had heard from someone with inside access to the Elvis production team that the wonky Live In Las Vegas mix and its missing keyboards was due to the original 1969 recording, and not an aesthetic decision by Ferrante and Jorgensen. I remained skeptical, and frankly still do.

How was the original recording set-up designed to only capture certain instruments for specific songs? And if for some reason it was (I’m not sure how or why RCA would have done that — it was easy enough to record all of the instrumentation and subsequently mix it the way they wanted), why did it only happen for one show — all the other concerts have Muhoberac’s keyboard work clearly audible. Ross-Spang is the guy that could provide clarity on this issue. I haven’t heard the new set yet, so I will be interested to make a comparison of the new mix for this particular show with the original Live In Las Vegas release.

 

Haven’t heard it yet, but a few samples were issued by Sony months ago and now the shows are streaming on various sites. Matt Ross-Spang engineered it.

 

I ended up having to cancel this due to lack of funds at the moment. I hope those that got it enjoy it and think of me every time you spin a disc.

 

I’m in your boat right now. Thank goodness for Spotify.

 

I hope other people also hear Elvis’s joking and repeated pronunciation of “Muhoberac” every time they read that name. Without fail. Muhoberac!

 

HOLY TAPE SPEED ERROR, BATMAN!

Yikes! There are audible tape speed disparities between Ross-Spangler and Ferrante, suggesting at least one version is not playing back at the real pitch / true speed it was performed!

For example, a random song on the new Ross-Spangler box plays nearly 2% faster than an earlier Ferrante version. Which version is a more accurate representation of how Elvis performed it? Perhaps someone here with an electric keyboard can confirm which version is at correct pitch.

Example:

• Compare the length of the 8/23/69 MS “What’d I Say” (first to last note)
• 5:30 - Live 1969 box (2019) Ross-Spangler
• 5:36 - At The International (2002) FTD Ferrante
• 330 seconds / 336 seconds = 0.98.
• Approximate 2% speed variance!
• Which version is the true representation of the performance?
• Wasn’t this song also on Collector’s Gold (1991)? How long was that version?

 

This should have been a Vic Anesini project.

 

Same here. Cancelled my Amazon UK order at the last minute. It's also on Apple Music for those that use that service.

 

It sounds to me like the tape starts to run slow on the last few minutes of the FTD, which has been speed corrected on the new Live 1969 version.

The boosted bass (or uncontrolled bass, depending) is the biggest issue on Live In Las Vegas, particularly if listening on a modern bass-boosted pair of 'phones. On a more neutral set it sounds fine, or more pertinently, not "atrocious".

And as is now evident, the "problem" of the absent keyboards on Live In Las Vegas is clearly nothing to do with Ferrante, seeing as the new Ross-Spang mixes are also missing the keyboards in the same places.

But strangely, the keys are again only missing on the songs where they aren't an integral part of the arrangement. There is now some doubt introduced whether the other performances even featured piano in the first place.

 

That seems likely to be the biggest challenge with mixing live Elvis tapes — there were many musicians (including the orchestra) and backing vocalists on stage, and more often than not, a muddy or muffled mix has been created as a result. That is why Anesini’s The Wonder of You mix was such a revelation when it was first released because it was the first time anyone had gotten it right and was able to create instrument separation and balance. He also did some fine work on some 1969 live tapes. I have not yet heard Ross-Spangs results on this box, but going in, there is no way it will match Anesini’s mixing of Elvis live tapes. And that is the biggest disappointment of all; Sony could have hired Anesini to do the job, and once again, when with an alternate choice. I presume Anesini mastered it?

 

My theory:

Larry getting snowed under is a combination of either a poor post production mix decision — or an issue with the way a show was recorded. Ferrante’s mixes were in general quite sloppy. But there is also evidence the location engineer was at times confused.

1. Engineer Al Pachuki only had 8 tracks on 1 inch tape to capture the performances
2. Pachuki captured both acoustic piano and electric piano (Fender Rhodes) on a single track
3. When Larry was playing electric piano, Pachuki turned off the acoustic piano mic — and vice versa, presumably to improve signal to noise ratio on the tape
4. But on some occasions, like the Aug 25 MS of What’d I Say, Larry threw Pachuki a curveball. Larry played the song with acoustic instead of electric. So you hear the mic faders go haywire for a few seconds at the start of the song, like Pachuki was expecting the electric piano but wasn’t hearing it.

By the way, Ferrante’s bass manipulation was horrid, harsh, hard and compressed.

Anesini’s bass on the FTD deluxe bonus tracks he mixed for the In Person reissue is deep, liquid and organic. It breathes. Anesini knew what he was doing.

 

I think you nailed it. Pachuki’s unsteady recording hand may have been the determining factor why there are some wonky results. Clearly Ferrante didn’t help during the production phase 30 years later. All that being said, and presuming the issues plaguing the Live In Las Vegas 1969 live show were due to Pachuki, it makes it that much more astounding that Jorgensen chose the 8/24/69 dinner show for release on the box set considering it was the one show where Muhoberac’s wonderful keyboard work was at times missing from the mix.

 

I canceled my order at the last minute as well, as funds are tight for me as well. Although I’m pleasantly surprised to see this set on Spotify, I cannot believe that RCA has put the entire set on Spotify. If I were them, I’d hold it off of streaming for a month, or at least only put condensed highlights on Spotify, in order to try to maximize sales of the physical box set.

 

It's intended to "sell" the box set. The remaining people buying physical media today aren't going to be satisfied by hearing it on YouTube/Spotify. The vast majority of people buying the box will be collectors.

 

Of course the vast majority of people buying a $100 box set are collectors. I’m a collector and I still intend to buy it. But I feel less urgency to buy it if the entire thing is up on Spotify. If all of the FTDs were on Spotify, I would feel a lot less urgency to pay $20 to $60 a pop for the CD pressings of them.

 

Ferrante’s mix of At The International (FTD 2002) was a head scratcher.

On What’d I Say, Ferrante made the horns, which are comping and not soloing, louder than Burton’s lead guitar solo.

The new Ross-Spang mix and old Collector’s Gold mix of that track are far more balanced and listenable.

This epic 5:30 length Aug. 23 MS “What’d I Say” is a superb, electrifying showcase for Burton’s soloing prowess. It’s a joy to hear Burton stretch out and jam over blues changes in his unique style, and this extended What’d I Say delivers in spades. I can’t think of another song in the Presley oeuvre in which Burton grooves harder and plays with this much utter ferocity.

 

If so, it is misguided. The box set is a high priced item, and even if one prefers physical product, if they can enjoy the music (with many shows being quite similar) as part of a $10 streaming fee, they might end up being satisfied with that access and bypass a subsequent purchase of the physical product.

What it quite possibly indicates is that Sony is moving full speed toward streaming distribution and content from new releases is not going to be held back in hopes of selling a few more physical copies.

 

I don’t think the price is THAT brutal, the box set is definitely worth the price. Although this August and September is gonna get me broke with the deluxe releases of Elvis, Stone Temple Pilots, Beatles, the Cult and the next batch of Prince reissues. I’m calling the bank

 

I got my box set today, as well as the new vinyl release. The CD box set is pretty gorgeous. Sure, I would have preferred a 12x12 box to match TTWII, but oh well. My only complaint so far is an all too common one these days: It is IMPOSSIBLE to get the CDs out. I felt like I was going to lose an eye just trying to check out whether the CDs were scratched. I pulled some sort of a muscle in my chest that I’ve never felt before.

 

I really think the 1972 mix got a bad rep from the rather dull sounding early 90s CD reissue. The Anasini remaster proved to me the mix was fine, and came alive with a nice mastering.

 

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