Harbeth Speakers- Doing Something Right....

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by avanti1960, Jul 25, 2019.

  1. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    not a fan either but mainly because of the logistics and loss of sound stage depth associated with the required corner placement.
     
    beowulf likes this.
  2. swvahokie

    swvahokie Forum Resident

    NO! Don’t let off the hook. I just picked up 15 packs of popcorn at Kroger. I’m packin’ and ready for the main event. Unload on him. He deserves it!
     
    basie-fan, Ivand, beowulf and 3 others like this.
  3. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Never heard the Devores but people seem to be caught by them....
     
    Slippers-on likes this.
  4. Mintsauce

    Mintsauce Forum Resident

    Location:
    North Wales
    I’m running my Shl5+ with a Luxman 509x solid state amp, it’s a thing of beauty!
     
    Clay B, avanti1960 and Baldmann like this.
  5. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    If you didn’t like AN, don’t bother with Devore. I had a home audition with the O/96. Not my cup of tea. I preferred the AN-E, but really preferred the 40.2 to both by a good margin.

    The placement of the Harbeths is key to making them sound incredible, but they still sound quite good even when not placed in an ideal spot, imo. Out near the middle of my room, in a somewhat near-field arrangement (about a 9’ equilateral triangle) they sound amazingly holographic. I think you will love the SHL5+.
     
  6. Larry Seinfeld

    Larry Seinfeld Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philly Pa. USA
    When I auditioned the Shl5+ the dealer said they have the family sound.
    Meaning...
    Everybody loves them.

    The dealer also used the Luxman 509x to run the Harbeths. Fantastic



    ;
     
  7. Norco74

    Norco74 For the good and the not so good…

    I heard the SHL5+ with a Rogue Cronus Magnum II.

    Very, very, very nice...
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
  8. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Geez I hope you're not under the impression I care one wit what you like or think is good. Generally, companies have parity on their products in a global market so that people don't get ripped off from region to region.

    Harbeth and Audio Note could really give a rat's ass if 7 people on a forum all like or all dislike their speakers and other products.

    I am not a Magnepan fan. But they've been selling for over 40 years so whether I like them or not they ARE hugely successful. All the rest is and always has been opinions. One does not need to state IMO after every line they utter. It should be taken that on a subjective topic such as sound quality or musoc preference that these are opinions.

    So if one prefers Harbeth, or Magnepan, or Bose, or whatever they like hey that's fine.

    PS I have always brought up the tertiary aspects when comparing AN to any other speaker that is unrelated to the sound of the speakers: efficiency, resale, finish options and in most posts with any product I discuss dealer locations, servicability. I have said in amp threads that it is better to buy amps you can get serviced and from bigger names than esoteric brands that may require pricey shipping and long wait times to get fixed.

    I have also mentioned these things in some of my reviews.
     
  9. LARGERTHAN

    LARGERTHAN Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eire
    Well, in the interests of balance, I too own some SHL5 Plus. My thoughts...

    They're certainly nice, though I would caution that those sensitive to metal dome tweeter break-up may find something objectionable in their presentation, to a greater or lesser degree.

    They play lots of types of music well, but excel where mid-band presentation is key.

    They absolutely need space - don't consider purchasing if you can't afford necessary room. They'll work, but will be hamstrung to some extent.

    They're very revealing of upstream sources.

    If you like contemporary fare, which I mean to mean bass centric music or music where lower octaves are key, consider something like a Hegel amp to pair with them. Or perhaps even another speaker!

    Are they overpriced? A subjective consideration, for sure. You can very likely get comparable sound quality for far less outlay, that is ultimately less fussy overall. But it won't look like or be a Harbeth.

    Final thoughts - Alan Shaw is a master marketeer. Considered or not, establishing the HUG was nothing less than a masterstroke, and his associated investment of time and resources there sold more speakers than any ads in Stereophile ever could. He's principally empirical in his musings, and there's much to be learned there, but it's foremost a manufacturers forum.

    Note that nowadays he's flogging speakers with exotic capacitors and so on...Even he'd likely admit his predecessors to whom he owes much to would scoff at such things. One gets the sense of principles softening for 'market demands' and the dollar, but hey, it's a business after all...
     
  10. dianos

    dianos Forum Resident

    Location:
    The North
    These SHL5 Plus are just pure magic :love: I was a bit afraid they were hyped but they really sound similar to everything great I've read about them. Man do they grow on me for every track played. I've never heard anything close to it before FWIW and as a former musician it's so great to hear instruments sound as I they should (IMHO). They actually created tears when played few minutes ago. I take that as APPROVED :righton:
     
    yenyen, Sugar Man, Mintsauce and 5 others like this.
  11. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Utterly irrelevant to the discussion, which is about an appreciation of Harbeth speakers.

    Then what are you doing here with your relentless promotions of AN and Qvortrup? Of course forums matter. It’s also insulting to all the forums members who read these threads without posting because they’re interested in Harbeth speakers but not moved to post. Marketing and public relations specialists and general consultants spend a lot of time on Web forums because they gather consensus about products and what existing and prospective customers are talking about, what trends are appearing, what features are being talked about (existing and non-existent), in addition to all the work those people do to tap into GoogInstaFace in various guises to maintain fingers on the pulse of audio trends being expressed in online social networks. Learn that side of the business you’re associated with and then stop making such demonstrably incorrect statements.

    Successful product marketers have been attentive to online discussion forums going back to Usenet and BBS forums in the ‘80s.

    As usual when confronted, you devolve into posting irrelevancies. None of it has anything to do with this thread about Harbeth appreciation.

    Of course you mention lots of things in your reviews and posts. Typically though, you don’t often qualify them as “primary” or “secondary” or “tertiary” considerations. Instead, that absence of qualification gives all such comments equal weight. When you do qualify (as you attempted to do earlier in this thread), you usually get it wrong because you seem unable to see the use of an audio component or loudspeaker through anything but your own personal focus. Mind you, that’s true of all of us to one degree or another but I don’t think it’s a good trait in a product reviewer.
     
    hvbias, beowulf, Bubbamike and 5 others like this.
  12. Norco74

    Norco74 For the good and the not so good…

    It’s not about been ripped off . To a certain extent, it is a price adjustment to the local cost of living.

    Do us a big favor, Google Canadian pricing on the net and see by yourself. Many Canadian forum members already attested the SHL5+ pricing. 40th anniversary edition is around $7000 CAD.

    Many companies will also adjust their CAD$ pricing to match US pricing at par, Luxman was/is one of them, distributor is in Albany, NY.


    Harbeth SHL5 Plus Speakers – Planet of Sound
     
    Strat-Mangler likes this.
  13. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    perfect placement, how I had my C73's placed, thanks.
     
    snorker likes this.
  14. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Until YOU brought up Qvortrup and your relentless attacks on me this thread would have largely stayed on Harbeth. I was replying to YOUR off topic rants. You could have sent me PMs. Until your reply to me my previous post was very likely my last. Your reply could have been a PM.

    Now back to the regularly sanctioned nonsense. Maybe.
     
  15. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Hi

    I looked at the site and it says $5600 Canadian for super HL5+ and then you select quantity. It says 1. Now some websites mean 1 pair and some websites sell them as singles. As in each speaker costs $5600. I did not see the word pair or the letter pr beside the quantity.

    Personally, I have not seen many markets where a company sells globally where the prices are too out of whack except products going into the UK where Bryston would cost double there. Or products from China in the US with higher markups. A Marantz receiver same model would be pretty much the same price converted back to USD. So if it is $500 in the US it is $650 to $700 in Canada and would be $6300 HKD.

    All currencies get converted back to the home market cureency so if I am in the US and my goal is X USD profit from each speaker, my pricing in Canada or the UK or anywhere still SHOULD net me my desired X profit. So if I selk for $1k on the States and $1,270 Canadian is the same as $1kUSD then I need to charge $1,270 Canadian.

    Nothing is exact as exchange rates change all the time although not by too much too fast, and there are various import duties but the swings have not been that big between the US and Canada on stereo gear.

    This is one reason why Bryston did poorly on England where the B60 only got 3 stars and Paradigm has 2 star speakers in the UK from their press. In the UK the B60 was selling for a lot more than the Sugden A21a but in Canada the B60 was less. Making it a better deal in Canada.

    But that was largely going into their market. Arcam, Rega, my Canbridge Audio CD6 when I saw the UK price and did the conversion to US or Canadian they were all within a hair of eachother. No.matter what country you paid the same USD equivalent. I have not personally seen a product that sold for $8k a pair US and $5600Canadian pr. That is just a massive difference.
     
  16. dianos

    dianos Forum Resident

    Location:
    The North
    Come on guys. There is no end to your pointless discussion. Call each other and clean the air or grab a beer and listen to music and consider this topic ended. Thanks.
     
  17. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    Or put the gloves on and come out swinging.:help:
     
    Robert C and Shiver like this.
  18. Norco74

    Norco74 For the good and the not so good…


    Here you go, I took some time to inquire for you. Hopefully, we can put this pricing discussion to sleep. This is my last post on CAD pricing. :tiphat:

    [​IMG]
     
    SandAndGlass and timind like this.
  19. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    I couldn't do 5 or 10 for under $20000, hell I probably couldn't do 5 or 10 regardless of price point, too many speakers are too compromised and too colored in the neutral polar response I look for classical music. Many speakers that measure extremely well can also sound dead, so measurements are not the only thing I am looking at. I value very high sensitivity as well, preferably in the > 98-100 db/w range.

    For now how about I just do two- Geddes Abbey 12 and Kii Three, I have heard the Kii at dealers and not just show conditions, any speaker that uses active room mode cancellation takes too long to setup in show conditions and the few times I've heard the Kii at audio shows they sounded boomy. From someone I implicitly trust D&D 8c to that list as well, but since I have not heard it I will not count it.

    The Kii do not have any of the frequency response/crossover issues of even the most expensive ANs, throw a deep soundstage with incredible imaging and they have very good (not exceptional) dynamic range that would crush AN's flat compressed all in a 2D plane image. For large full range symphony music the ANs would be ranked in my lower tier of speakers. I can read/listen between the lines at audio shows and dealers when the demo'ers want to play simple male/female acoustic music or safe well recorded rock music like Dark Side of the Moon or Wish You Were Here. One of the least convincing and frankly flat out poor reproductions I have heard for Honeck conducting Mahler's first symphony was on some very over priced AN speakers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
    Salectric likes this.
  20. beowulf

    beowulf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chula Vista, CA
    I disagree this guy jumps into almost every post with his "AN is best" rhetoric and turns countless threads into argumentative comparisons of AN vs brand X . I enjoy watching @Agitater call him out at his endless love affair with Peter Q and condescending tone towards most other brands.

    In fact out of all the thousands of people on this entire forum he is the only person I've set to "ignore". And even though I can't see his posts I can see from other people's posts that he is still ruining threads with his nonstop Audio Note drivel and irrelevant arguments.
     
    Eigenvector, Art K, timind and 8 others like this.
  21. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    The tell tale sign is that "for fans of Audio Note only" thread, on any discussion board when I see these things related topics it's because the thread starter knows there is a lot of criticism that can be railed against said product (or musician, composer, etc) so they create a safe space for cheerleading. There is some stuff that I am really passionate about like Beethoven's piano sonatas, but I would be embarrassed to start such a thread.

    The Kondo points are very interesting, between the two companies I could instantly tell you which one is held in higher regard on any other forum other than this one. I still fondly recall hearing Kondo's very low output cartridge, just incredible. Lynn Olson, who's opinions I trust says Kondo's 211 amp is one of the best he has heard besides his no feedback DHT push pull amp.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
    beowulf likes this.
  22. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Thanks for the info, I have online friends that are into vintage horns like WE and Siemans, but I have no experience with them. I have been meaning to visit one of them who has the Klangfilm Bionors that even people that are into speakers are the polar opposite (popular hifi brands like Wilson, Magico, etc) have said are extremely impressive speakers if not the best speakers they have ever heard.

    I posted my tastes/preferences and the system I am building in this thread: What would you decide between 300K$ and 30K$ speakers?

    The system I heard that essentially caused me to stop dead in my tracks and force me to unlearn everything I thought I knew about audio is basically what I am doing what I wrote in that thread. Those speakers had absolutely no horn coloration as well, something my ears are all too keen on picking up. One of the woofers I have been looking at is field coil while the other is a standard electromagnet that is Alnico.

    I think our host's thread here really sums it up perfectly that not many people are seeking what I am, ie "audiophiles don't really want neutral": Audiophiles don't really want NEUTRAL. Audiophiles don't really like NEUTRAL.

    If I were to start a speaker company with the realistic intent of actually selling speakers (ie not of the monstrosity I am having built) I would choose Supravox drivers with a tweeter. Sadly Supravox are all but unheard of since they have a distributor that does no promotion of their products and takes ages to reply to emails. These drivers have the best tone/timbral qualities I have heard from any single driver style speaker. What their field coil version sells for is frankly almost stealing compared to what something like Feastrex or Lowther sells for with their strong whizzer coloration.

    Just to keep this still on the topic of Harbeth, I have had Vladimir Krainev playing Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto 2 in my heavy rotation recently. I brought my Harbeths up here when the weather started warming up again and I love how well everything is defined in the orchestra. Particularly important with piano concerti; the piano is the star and most recordings give it star mic'ing. These speakers do a very good job of highlighting this by placing the piano stage center and forward in the mix with the orchestra falling in place behind it. Again, no matter what concerti I played (Beethoven, Rachmaninoff) even on something like AN-E the sound was compressed, flat and those crossover issues became readily apparent as this is demanding music. The Harbeths are not perfect, but for what I paid I am quite pleased with the sound. They look very "in place" in this living room as well, in person ANs are nice looking speakers as well.
     
  23. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Thanks. I think Harbeth fans should tell their friends to make a trip over the border. Buy a set stick em in the trunk and pretend they're car speakers and save a boatload of cash. I have brought items over the border in the 1990s to save money. Back then it was much cheaper to buy in the US and bring back. I paid $220US for a cassette deck that sold for $650 on Canada.

    Indeed you could just buy them and then head to a shipping company and send them to yourself. Worth the risk to save $3000USd ($4000 Canadian).

    Before someone gets upset consider people who move from Canada to the US. They get a shipping van and bring their stuff over the border and are not paying duty on stuff they own. So all that needs to be done is to get a budget rental van and put stuff in and bring it on over.

    The American can claim they're bringing their Canadian girlfriend's stuff down to move in. Has to be a way to save cash.

    My arguments were based on US pricing as this is a US forum.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
  24. Subagent

    Subagent down the rabbit hole, they argue over esoterica

    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    As regards your two points (in reverse order):

    2: I don't follow this increasingly aging controversy, but I respect your skills in reading the crowd temperature of the Internet.

    1: That's very cynical interpretation regarding a thread for fans, owners and brand-curious Internet searchers; clearly identified as such for the browsing convenience of the rest of the forum membership.

    Honestly, your vitriol has really bummed me out on an otherwise beautiful (and increasingly rare) evening here on the Chesapeake Bay. You should be ashamed.
     
  25. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    i'll be using a rogue audio cm II for now- sounded excellent with my former C73's.

    BTW are you using the supplied jumper links to connect the tweeter binding posts?
     

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