Harbeth Speakers- Doing Something Right....

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by avanti1960, Jul 25, 2019.

  1. Salectric

    Salectric Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    Avanti, are you saying the SHL-5 Plus sounds better than than the 40th Anniversary model?
     
  2. Bwilson1

    Bwilson1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orlando, FL USA
    Just acquired a very gently used pair of P3ESR in Black Ash - no Harbeth dealers near me so I took a chance on them figuring I could flip them worst case.

    Needless to say after two days use they are going nowhere - very very pleased !

    Once I get more time on them I will post some further thoughts
     
  3. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    I’m glad you asked . . .

    Synthesis Flame - 20W/ch, EL34, has a certain sweetness from the mid-bass through the upper midrange that emphasizes one of the Monitor 30.1/30.2 and SHL5+ strengths. Unfortunately, the little Flame has somewhat noisy output and it runs out of gas whenever it’s pushed too loud.

    Unison Research S6 - 30W/ch pure class A, EL34, is one of the finest valve integrated amps you can buy at the money, IMO. It has the current delivery to drive almost anything. It oozes EL34 sweetness, and Unison has done a superb job of creating very low noise output. Tube rolling is a breeze, as is biasing. The S6 is an exciting match with everything from the Harbeth P3ESR to the Monitor 40.2. It was the very last amp I tried with the Monitor 30.1 and SHL5+ and that almost didn’t happen because I was pushed for time and I had the SHL5+ boxes opened up and ready to take the speakers back. But I found a bit of extra effort and I’m very glad I did. All I can say is music, music, music. Superb combination.

    VAC Sigma 160i - 85W/ch, class A line stage section, KT88, was as much a revelation with the SHL5+ and Monitor 30.1 as the Unison S6 but with a bit more sophistication. It’s expensive but it’s also brilliantly engineered. The music the 160i made with the SHL5+ was gorgeous. Like the S6, it can produce a prodigious amount of clean current effortlessly.

    Rogue Cronus Magnum II - 100W/ch, KT120, was a lot of fun. It has a certain appeal across a lot of music genres. That said, it’s not the quietest of the bunch and I heard clipping on several different tunes on Michael Kaeshammer’s No Filter album. The solo piano on a couple tracks on that album can give some amplifier’s fits. The little Flame also clipped. The Unison S6 and the VAC Sigma 160i had no such problems. Still the Cronus Magnum II did a lot of things well with the SHL5+ and the 30.1. I could live with it easily.

    There were a couple of others that I really can’t recall right now and I can’t be bothered to dig through my notes.
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
  4. Dream On

    Dream On Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    I have to stop reading this thread. The urge to buy a pair of M30.2's or C7ES-3's is very real!

    I'm sure either of these would be a great final speaker. Bit concerned about how they would fit my room though. 13' x 11', so not very big. I can only move the speakers 18" from the front walls (plural, b/c of diagonal placement). I have read that sometimes these speakers can sound boomy, and I suspect that could happen in my room. My current speakers go down to 40Hz but have smaller drivers and cabinets than the Harbeths, and their balance is pretty much perfect in this room.

    Curious to know what you guys think. I will probably have to do an in home trial or extensive demoing if I decide to pursue this. I have heard the SHL5+ twice now - the first time at an audio show they sounded amazing. The second time, at a dealer, they sounded way too boomy. They were definitely too big for that room.
     
    Bananas&blow and avanti1960 like this.
  5. Baldmann

    Baldmann Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    I`ve owned a pair of SHL5+ for around 2 years now. I initially drove them with a Sugden A21se, 30 watts class A. I recently went to a Luxman L509X, and the difference is quite noticeable, particularly the bottom end, and the scale of dynamics. It`s a great match for the Harbeths imho.
     
  6. dianos

    dianos Forum Resident

    Location:
    The North
    I have a similar sized room sitting around 2m from my SHL5+ and have no issues. Well, if I put on some really bass heavy music and play loud then there will be a lot bass in the room but at the level I play and the music I play there is no issue at all. What I've noticed is that the SHL5+ seem to not create bass nodes as my Audio Physics did meaning with AP I could move like 50cm and the sound totally changed. With the SHL5+ I have a more similar sound moving around in the room.

    I notice a rather big improvement in the bass area moving from my LM 508 SET tube amp to my Naim Supernait on these Harbeths so for now it's the Supernait stealing the show.
     
    avanti1960, Dream On and Robert C like this.
  7. LARGERTHAN

    LARGERTHAN Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eire
    Home dem if at all possible, or take a second hand gamble if the price is right. I'd wager P3's or 30.1/2 would be ideal in that space.
     
    Dream On likes this.
  8. Robert C

    Robert C Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    My room is 4x5. My SHL5+ are set up using the rule of thirds and I'm not noticing any bass issues so far. A frequency sweep yields a subjectively flat response from where I'm sat.

    What can I say that hasn't already been said? They are amazing. They have a way of making whatever I play sound its best without adding or subtracting anything from the recording. Instrument detail, interplay between performers, and the sense of the recording spectacle are palpable.

    I think the magic comes in them being very detailed without being fatiguing.
     
    IanL, avanti1960, Norco74 and 3 others like this.
  9. Shiver

    Shiver Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Any sense of bottom end limitation with the 5s? Do folks use subs with them much or at all?
     
  10. dianos

    dianos Forum Resident

    Location:
    The North
    I see no need for a sub at all in my system. I was not prepared for such a great bass response from them.
     
    Shiver likes this.
  11. Norco74

    Norco74 For the good and the not so good…


    Hopefully your dimensions are in meters! :D
     
  12. Larry I

    Larry I Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    To me, the 40.2 is free of the one slight annoyance I find with the rest of the line--a slight sibilance or hard edge in the upper midrange. I know a lot of listeners like this extra "presence" but, I rather wish it were not there. It is a minor issue for me, and otherwise, I like the whole lineup. The 40.2 appears to be a difficult beast when it comes to matching with tube amps (I don't know about how they work with solid state because I don't listen much to solid state). It is not necessarily an issue of power, because I heard it work well with a very tiny amp, but it can sound a bit muddled and lifeless when not driven with something compatible. The same can be said, to a lesser degree about the SHL5+; it is also demanding, but rewarding when the right match is found.

    I haven't heard the 40.2 in a small room, but I've heard the rest of the lineup in medium and small rooms and they work reasonably well in all sorts of rooms. They also sound quite good listening at close distances. I would not worry that much about placement near room boundaries. Even when a speaker must be placed somewhat close to the back wall, there are always spots where they will sound decent and free of excessive boom; it take experimentation, and perhaps, a systematic method of determining placement (Google the "Sumiko" method). Any placement near the back wall will necessarily mean some loss of a sense of depth, but, that is the case with almost all speakers.
     
    Salectric likes this.
  13. Dream On

    Dream On Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Thanks. At this price point I definitely think that I would need to do one of those things.

    Do you think the C7's are too large? Notice you didn't mention them. I think the P3's are a little too small given the kinds of music I listen to.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  14. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    About tubes, when I owned the HL5 I was able to drive them nicely with my Jadis JA 200 monoblocks without any hint of dynamic compression. Of course, that was no surprise. What surprised me was that they also played well with an old Eico ST 70.
    The best combination for me was the tube Mcintosh C2600 preamp with the power amp section of MA6600. The 200W of the MA6600 made a lot of difference in terms of bass extension and dynamics.
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
  15. Robert C

    Robert C Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Apparently they go down to 40 Hz ±3 dB. I'm not noticing any limitation but I'm not sure if anything I listen to has much going on in the 20-40 Hz range. I think a sub would be overkill and the low end is so well integrated on the SHL5+ that I'd be afraid to spoil it with a sub that wasn't dialled in perfectly.

    That integration is something that I noticed right away when listening to orchestral music. The low string section slots in perfectly under the violins and violas. I demoed a similar looking speaker recently that's gotten good reviews and found that, as soon as cello and double bass played, the low register sort of jumped out as if it were bolstered and separate from the rest of the frequency spectrum. On the Harbeth, the low end falls in to line and fills out the spectrum as you would expect it to at a concert hall. Hope that makes sense.
     
  16. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Congrats, buddy!

    I don't consider Harbeths to be neutral but they certainly are pleasing to the ear. Personally, I don't care about neutrality but it does seem to be what most audiophiles seem to want... or at least, *think* they want. When the warm musical sound of the Harbeths comes to life, it's a complete 180-degree change from the in-your-face, neutral, and/or super bright speakers I've heard from other manufacturers.

    As for the 508IA being left in the dust, I'm wondering if a tube change would address that. For instance, I can't imagine the bass being more pronounced, have more detail, and more slam than when I used NOS Ken-Rad 6SN7s!
     
  17. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I think they are both important, so I just refer to them as "vocals". Though I probably listen to more female vocals with Jazz and acoustical instruments.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    88-key piano frequency range.

    [​IMG]

    IF you can cover both Male and Female frequencies and have them sound superb then you are better than 98% the way there.

    Both Paul W. Klipsch and James B. Lansing were all about the magic midrange. Tragically today, this has fallen to the sidelines with most of the speakers manufacturer's today.

    No individual speaker is going to do it all. Best to select a speaker which does most of the music that you listen to well, or compromise with a speaker that does a little bit of everything.
     
  18. DaveyF

    DaveyF Forum Resident

    Location:
    La Jolla, Calif
    HL5 and Jadis 200's must have been a very nice sounding combo. I suspect that you were not pushing the 200's at all. I use Jadis JA30 Mk 2's and they are coasting along with my medium efficiency ( 86db) SF's. What did you replace the Jadis and Harbeth's with?
     
  19. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Yes, they sounded great together without any sweat. I did not replace the Jadis, they are still in the system and they are not going anywhere anytime soon. I just sold the HL5 Plus because as much as I liked them, I own the Stirling LS 3/6 which are very similar speakers. They sounded very close to one another but I prefer the midrange of the Stirling by a very small margin.
    The Harbeth was an impulse buy cause I was reading so much about them but I never owned a pair. I was not disappointed at all with them but at the end, I decided to keep the Stirling and sell the Harbeth without loss due to higher resale value.
     
    Doctorwu likes this.
  20. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    You realise Harbeth voice all their speakers using only speech? This does worry me a bit for all round reproduction but I am not surprised they excel with female vocals.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  21. Shiver

    Shiver Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Yep, nicely put.
     
  22. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Every company has its own methods. Personally, all that matters is whether the end result is pleasing and since it is, I'm a happy camper with my C7ES-3s.
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
  23. DaveyF

    DaveyF Forum Resident

    Location:
    La Jolla, Calif
    Don't blame you for keeping the Jadis amps. Once you hear what they can do, there's no going back! Agreed, the Stirling speakers are of the same cloth as the Harbeth's. My slight preference in the Harbeth line is for the 30.2 vs the HL5 Plus. Have you heard the Graham line, while they sound similar to the Harbeth's or the Sterling's, they are not quite as warm sounding.
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
  24. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Unfortunately, I haven't heard the Graham audio.
    However, it is worth pointing out here that the designer of all the Graham speakers is Derek Hughes, SPENcer and DORothy's son, who is also the designer of the Stirling BBC LS3/6. He also used to work for Harbeth at some point.
    There is some interesting information about the collaboration between Shaw and Hughes in Art Dudley's review of 40.1 on Stereophile.

    Harbeth M40.1 loudspeaker
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
  25. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Grahams are quite a bit warmer than Harbeths - which are the brightest of the BBC lineage to my ears.
     
    Richard Austen and SandAndGlass like this.

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