Best cartridge you've never heard of: the Audio-Technica AT33PTG/II

Right, total guesstimate, should be confirmed with a test record. If it were my system I would likely choose a less compliant cartridge to be safe on a 26g tonearm.

 

You also need to use an accurate test record, I have the CBS STR 100 that you often mention, and also the old Shure ERA IV Trackability Test record, both with accurate resonance test bands, though the CBS only goes down to 10 Hz if I recall, and you would need to record the output to use it, the Shure has announcer at spot frequencies of 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 and 12 Hz. The popular HiFi News test record is pretty inaccurate, with the resonance test frequencies 1-2 Hz higher than stated by announcer, at least according to many reports online (I don't have a copy), but still useful to see potential issues, especially if you can record the output and measure the frequency. Of course, if you can record the output and analyze it, you don't really need a test record to check the resonance frequency.

That said, if you don't have footfall problems and your records are mostly flat and centered, probably not too risky to go with a 6 Hz resonance combo. And cartridge compliance varies a lot too. @ruben lopez may want to bump this topic out to a new thread, ie MC cartridge recommendations for a 26 gram tonearm.

 

BTW, if you like the Benz Micro sound and the design works well in your setup, and I do love it, the Wood SL is really my goto cartridge for just kicking back and enjoying the music, for around the same cost as the 33PTG/II you can get a Benz Micro ACE SL from kron on audiogon, that might be a way to go too, not sure if that's a viable option in your part of the world. Surely one of the best sounding low cost MC cartridges, if you can get it for the right price, with the same advanced cantilever and stylus features as the AT33PTG/II.

 

I don't know for you but in Europe the AT33ptg/ii can be have for 500€ while the Benz costs 750€.

 

Yea, for me in the US, they are both about $450-$500 from Asia, so comparable. I know it's different around the world, just tossing out alternatives. For around $700, the Glider comes into play too, and at $900 the Wood. But my local dealer can't really get any of them for a good price. The person I was responding to has the lower cost Benz Gold now and it works on his tonearm, so that's what lead to the mention of the ACE.

 

"The popular HiFi News test record is pretty inaccurate" even more so if the spindle hole is off center as my copy is!

 

I got my AT33PTGii from a Japanese seller on Ebay for $450 US (best price I could find) and it came pristine / never opened and definitely new condition (I am overly careful and paranoid when I buy cartridges and always email in advance to express it has to be a never opened or handled item).

My assessment of the AT33PTGii is it is tough to beat in its class - it seems no matter what TT I put it on, it shines. Definitely has an edge in overall soundstage and detail compared to the ATOC9ml/ii which is in a similar price class and is also boron cantilever..

 

Yea, there are people earlier in the thread using it successfully on their Yamaha GT-2000, so it definitely works on heavy arms, but tough to advise someone with that heavy Lenco arm, that's outside of my experience, though I have used it on my custom Thorens arm and it's a pretty high mass design with double wall construction and viscoelastic filler, can't say how high, most of the mass increase is spread throughout the arm, the headshell is rather light, I built it to work well with the Benz Glider. The Lenco L75 has that gigantic headshell, not sure if it can be replaced with something lighter.

 

Interesting you bought that up (the GT-2000). About a year ago, @808_state (a fellow GT-2000 owner) and I were exchanging emails / PMs for quite some time regarding the AT33PTGii and the GT-2000. He had it in his system, and I had not purchased it as of yet --- and at that time I had some reservations due to the compliance math showing the resonant frequency was still in the low 7's Hz with the 22g EM tonearm / stock headshell on the GT-2000. In the end he was luke warm with it.... I think he opted to use it on his PF-800.

Well, I have since purchased it -- and I like it better on my Pioneer PL-70Lii (with the S-arm, haven't tried it with the straight pipe yet), it also sounds superb on the KP-1100 / 9010 Kenwood, as well as on the Micro DD-8 (which is near identical spec-wise to your DD-40 you pictured above as you know).

But on the GT-2000...... it's good, but not as much...... I am not getting the punch / dynamics compared to other tables. Now, realize on the GT-2000 I am using an active head amp and want to try it with a SUT too (Bob tells me 1:20 is a perfect match ), there could be other factors other than compliance limiting the performance on my GT-2000.

At the end of the day I did not buy the AT33PTGii for the GT-2000 it was more targeted at my PL-70Lii and KP-1100.

 

That's good info, I was hoping you had tried it on the higher mass arm. Doesn't seem a good match from my own experience, but you never know for sure.

 

As you know, sometimes people equate a one to one relationship between tracking force and compliance, where higher tracking force means lower compliance and vice versa. But the 1.8 - 2.2g tracking force on the AT33PTG is one of those cases where although the tracking force is on the higher end, the dynamic compliance is the same as other AT cartridges with tracking force as low as 0.75 - 1.75 (AT-150MLx) or maybe the AT-440mlb at 1.3 - 1.8 and many, many others.

The higher tracking force of the AT33PTGii belies its more medium - medium high compliance rating.... and probably why some think it might be a good match for a higher mass tonearm. But if you believe the AT specs, the 10u Dynamic Compliance make it a not so good choice for higher mass arms in the >20g range. (according to the specs and compliance formulas).

But like anything, the math and rules of thumb are only as good as trying it in any given situation --- who knows, ones ears can make anything sound good!

 

You are right about the STR100. The tones themselves only to go down to 10hz. However, when you run that test, as well as any of the other tests on the LP, you'll see the resonance in Audacity's spectral analyzer just as you would if you play songs and record them. If you get the same sub-10hz resonance for all of those, I think it is pretty safe to say that is your main tonearm cart resonance that you need to worry about for cart/arm matching purposes. Having a record that goes down even lower would definitely be good to have and confirm things further. One thing I will be doing eventually is investing in more test LPs so I can compare results across them.

 

OK, but if you can record the output, all you need do is drop the tonearm from a little above the record and look at the resulting spectrum, no test record required. Plenty of discussions around here about determining the resonance frequency from this and other tests. But generally agree. You can also just turn off the motor while playing a test tone, you will see the resonance peak as the speed winds down.

 

AT's compliance numbers can indeed be confusing and over the years they've gone back and forth with listing the dynamic at 10hz and 100hz. I'm not even sure all the numbers they list online are correct. Plus you can have two different carts with the same dynamic compliance, say 10 @ 100hz, but then look at the static and they are very different. That is because those carts are different compliance wise. The one with the higher static number is a higher compliance cart, even though we don't traditionally use the static number to do these tonearm/cart matching calculations.

 

Actually AT is better than most IMO --- heck many don't even list their compliance numbers, or if they do you are left wondering if it is a 10H or 100Hz number due to it being counter-intuitive.

At least AT lists complete specs - although these days I find myself going to the .eu (Eurpopean) website more than the US for specs because the AT US site has chopped half the specs in many cases.

Sure the AT specs are not perfect and have some errors --- for instance look at the AT-OC9ml/ii vs AT-OC9ml/iii, they show the dynamic compliance doubling to 18 cu at 100Hz for the ML/iii which is ludicrous --- but again for the most part I look at AT as one of the better spec publishers when it comes to cartridges.

 

Still stand by that statement too. On the PF-800 it's awesome. I use both tables all the time but admittedly now run an AT-33ml/occ on the PF. The 33ml has slightly higher output than the ptg/ii and loads better with my C-4. The ptg/ii is taking a break.

 

Thanks i will check that one, as i said i like the Benz Micro Gold,but i'm on my second one and life is short, i want to hear another cart.

 

I have the opportunity to purchase a brand new AT33PTG Mk.II cartridge for about half price. I'll be stepping down (maybe?) from my long in the tooth, but much beloved Lyra Argo i. What, if anything, will I notice/be giving up?

 

Might be giving up IGD !

It’s wonderful -enjoy !

 

I'm sure you could sell it for more than half price (more specific price would help) if you try it and decide to go another route; so it's a risk free deal or better.
If you do buy it, please share your observations here.

 

Well, first off you are giving up about 1/3 of the cartridge output, so make sure you have enough gain reserves. The compliance of the 33PTG seems to be around 20cu or so at 10Hz based on my Micro Seiki tonearm measurement (around 14.5gm), so should be a good match for your low/medium mass SME. You will probably just give up a little refinement compared to the Lyra, that's kind of what I feel compared to my Benz Micro, just not quite as natural and involving, but still very nice. I find it pretty difficult to do accurate and meaningful comparisons between these two cartridges with my setup (my Benz Wood SL is normally mounted on a Clearaudio arm, and also has quite a bit higher output than the AT), so I just enjoy each on their own via different tables and different preamps and no longer worry about it. I gravitate toward the Benz for most listening because it is just so inviting, and makes it so easy to get lost in the music, but I always enjoy listening to music with the 33PTG too. If you are getting a deal for well under $500 USD then I don't think you can go wrong, even if it just becomes a backup cartridge while you get the Lyra rebuilt.

 

I have a KUB modded SL1200 (did the mods myself, Technics 1200 KAB Tonearm Rewire + RCA Upgrade Guide ) and the tonearm has the cotton ball-type material sent in the kit from KUB in the tube as well as heat shrink warp around the tube. I also have a Zupreme headshell, which I love, but is much heavier than a stock Technics. I know people on here have commented on this cart working well with a Technics 1200 arm, but any opinions on how well or not well this cart would match with a heavier modded arm?

Furthermore, how does this cart perform with metal music? (Metallica, Iron Maiden, Mastodon, Opeth, Rammstein, etc).

Cheers!

 

I felt the AT33 was a bit polite/refined for metal on the Technics, it had the balance and low end power but less lively than the AT150MLX I previously had. Some say the AT33 is a bright cart - but on a Technics it has a neutral presentation, the highs and mids never got out of control. Personally I like bright carts on the SL1210. Mine is moderately modified, external psu, upgraded platter, rewire etc. The AT33 is a good all rounder for any style, but aggressive music can sound a little reserved with it.

 

Ahh okay. That helps, thank you. Any recommendations on great carts for metal with a modded Technics 1200? I have the Lounge Copla SUP ready for LOMCs.

 

If you are looking for a LOMC, the Audio Technica OC9/MLII was a lively performer on my SL-1210M5G. I found the OC9/MLII to be an excellent match for the SL-1200mkII line of tables (I also used it on my SL-1200M3D). It continues to do well on my SL-1200G tables when I rotate it in.