Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Classicolin, Sep 12, 2017.

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  1. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

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    Hollywood, USA
    You can argue if you see a movie about German soldiers in WWII, they might be speaking English in the film, but the signs in the background and on cars, plus any newspapers shown would all be in German. It's a creative choice as to how to show that visually. I laugh at movies with foreign characters where one guy has a German accent, another guy has a British accent, and a third guy has an American accent... but they're all supposed to be German. In outer space, we can assume other rules apply to aliens.
     
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  2. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

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    It's an odd convention even there.
     
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  3. twicks

    twicks Forum Resident

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    You don't like the Jabba sequence? It's pretty much the first third of the movie. And since the Luke/Vader stuff and space fight takes up the last third, I'd say it's 2/3rds of a great movie...plus a speeder bike chase to liven up the inert second act.
     
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  4. twicks

    twicks Forum Resident

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    The Phantom Menace is the last Star Wars movie with a story that the filmmaker really wanted to tell and wasn't making choices based on what the fanbase on the Internet would or wouldn't like.
     
  5. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    Although ROTJ is not as good as the first two, it is still a very strong film. And it has one thing that the newer films do not; it completes the story of the first two installments which are recognized as great films with a great story. Consider the strong points of ROTJ:

    Jabba scene
    Luke's final meeting with Yoda
    Speeder bike chase
    Epic space battle
    Throne room scenes
    Completes the arc established by Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back

    On those merits, ROTJ is superior to anything that has come after it, even if someone does not like aspects of it, or likes one of the later films better when viewed in isolation. You cannot view ROTJ Jedi in isolation as it concludes the trilogy.

    It think ROTS and Force Awakens are about the same grade as ROTJ, but they are not attached to the first two films like it is.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
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  6. twicks

    twicks Forum Resident

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    Yeah -- it sticks the landing and then some.
     
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  7. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

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    Luray, Virginia
    The actual stuff at the sail barge was fine. Plus Carrie in the gold bikini was a highlight,but the rest hasn't for aged well for me. However I can only speak for myself.
     
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  8. MekkaGodzilla

    MekkaGodzilla Forum Resident

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    I agree with you on the sail barge sequence, although the "death" of one of the fiercest bounty hunters in the galaxy was incredibly lame and out of character and played for laughs. Heck, the first 1/3 of the film is pretty good stuff, even though it looks a bit like "The Muppet Show" version. Once the Endor stuff starts, the film d-r-a-g-s and it doesn't help that BOTH Fisher and Ford are literally phoning in their dialogue, especially Fisher. Hamill at least TRIES to stay engaged and his final fight with Vader is one for the ages.
     
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  9. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    Peoples dislike of ROTJ, whether they admit it or not, is really about those damn teddy bears and how silly it was to present them as something that helped defeat the Empire.

    More Wookies, less teddy bears= a much better wrap up to the original trilogy. And a better movie in general.
     
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  10. greg_t

    greg_t Senior Member

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    why couuldn't ewoks help the rebels win? i've never understood this argument. If history has shown us anything it's that the strongest military force is not always guaranteed a victory and anything can happen in war.
     
  11. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

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    Too bad it's such a steaming pile. Like I said, when we get exactly what George wants, we get crap. He was a better filmmaker when he was severely constrained. Much, much better.

    He's not the only sci-fi franchise creator with this problem, either. When Gene Roddenberry got almost total control, the results were the abysmal Star Trek: The Motion Picture and the excruciating first season of Star Trek: The Next Generation.
     
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  12. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

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    The problem with the highlights of ROTJ is that they're all counterweighted by flaws as bad or worse. The film self-sabotages all over the place, mostly in trying to play for 8 year olds instead of aiming higher and trusting the kids to come along for the ride.

    I get why that happened, though. The box office was down quite a bit for Empire, which was broadly seen as "too dark" and "too adult". Seeing them almost back to back as an adult though there was no contest - Empire beats up ROTJ and steals its lunch money.

    Nope, that pretty much nails it. The film has pacing problems, relying too long on suspense and not enough on action. We were freshmen in high school when it came out, and I saw it around the same time as a good friend saw it. We both thought the Ewoks were a shameless, cynical merchandising opportunity - it really took us out of the film. It turned into a toy commercial.

    Well...that's where the real money was to be made...

    Exactly. All this. The barge sequence ends with Boba Fett's death being played for laughs. So much for the menace of that character.

    It would have been far cooler for him to have survived that encounter and turn up stalking Han again on Endor. In fact, that could have provided the middle of the film a badly-needed action sequence...

    The final fight is good, brilliantly staged and well-acted by Hamill and especially Ian McDiarmid. If there's one thing to be thankful for about the prequels, it was giving us a chance to see just how incredible McDiarmid was as an actor. His Palpatine is easily one of the best things about those otherwise mostly unfortunate entries in the franchise.

    Because they were fricking comic relief, reeked of "merchandising opportunity", and were the Jar Jar Binks of the original trilogy.

    It could have worked - or at least not been cringeworthy - if the original idea of making the Ewoks way more menacing-looking had been adhered to. I think it would have also worked better if they'd found some non-obvious, non-direct way to take out the shield projector thanks to the Ewoks. As opposed to trying to take out an Imperial base militarily.
     
  13. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    When will that be then? As now it's owned by Disney they will be making them until we are all killed in WW3 in 2047.

    There are currently five Star Wars shows/films being made (The film and four TV series), plus the new trilogy when that comes along.

    There will never be no more Star Wars.
     
  14. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    I wonder if our societies turning so cynical in the last few decades is part of the backlash for ROTJ. George wanted his epic to have a happy ending. As adults, now we all want it to be dark as Empire, or darker.

    Do I wish the Ewoks were Wookies? Yes

    But they don't ruin the film for me, and kids still love them. And although the Emperor underestimated the help the rebels would receive on Endor, had Vader not thrown him down the shaft it would not have mattered. He was in complete control until that unexpected turn happened.
     
  15. twicks

    twicks Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    This is the only reason I don't really hate Death Star 2 in ROTJ like most people. Yes, it's sort of lazy...but the whole "Guess what? It's operational" moment when it starts vaporizing Rebel ships is fantastic, and McDiarmid realllllly sells it. The Rebellion seems truly doomed, and you feel the stakes in a way you never do during The Last Jedi.
     
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  16. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

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    I have NO problem with Death Star II and here is why:

    1. It was useful to the Empire. The thing was terrifying.
    2. The Emperor knew that it would draw the rebellion in force to it
    3. The rebellion would be overconfident since they already blew up a fully constructed one

    It was a perfect trap, if once again Vader had not turned, bringing balance to the force. *

    Which apparently may be wiped away, since the Emperor appears not to be dead. :sigh:
     
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  17. twicks

    twicks Forum Resident

    Location:
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    Yes, it's a great plot device. It's funny, when the prequels turned out to be relatively disappointing I assumed that Lawrence Kasdan was the real genius behind Empire and Jedi. After Force Awakens I realized you need George's story + Kasdan's screenplay to get gold.
     
  18. CraigBic

    CraigBic Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    I always thought having a new but slightly different Death Star was quite a nice way to book end the trilogy.
     
  19. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    It really was a perfect storm:

    The imagination of Lucas. Kasdan on script. ILM on revolutionary special effects. Marcia Lucas in support, including the editing team that really fixed Star Wars in post. Add in Irvin Kershner for Empire.

    Not to mention Lucas casting relative unknowns and hitting a homerun. Plus the brilliant stroke to hire Sir Alec Guiness for some gravitas.

    And just one more, trusting Stuart Freeborn and Frank Oz with an absolutely essential character in Yoda. If that had gone wrong...
     
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  20. twicks

    twicks Forum Resident

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    Yeah, personnel-wise Marquand was the only sorta dodgy hire...and that was after George offered the job to Kershner *and* David Lynch, haha.

    I'd also like to say that I didn't start hearing that ROTJ was a "bad" movie until the '90s. As a kid in the '80s it was commonly accepted that all 3 movies were 10s out of 10.
     
  21. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

    Location:
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    And Spielberg was his first choice for Empire and ROTJ but could not use him.
     
  22. twicks

    twicks Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    Which is another reason I can't fully hate on George for the prequels. Didn't he try hiring other people to direct those, too? I remember Ron Howard being mentioned.
     
  23. twicks

    twicks Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    I always forget about George quitting the Directors' Guild. He really doesn't get enough credit for being punk rock as hell.
     
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  24. TrekkiELO

    TrekkiELO Forum Resident

    Jar Jar (Not) ̶A̶b̶r̶a̶m̶s̶ on Twitter
     
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  25. twicks

    twicks Forum Resident

    Location:
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    George Knows Best. (Or at least Knew Best, back in the day.)

    I've always been defensive about the "Han should've died in ROTJ" complaints too. As a kid, that ending with Vader being unmasked and dying was plenty heavy. Killing Han would've unbalanced the whole thing and sent it toppling.
     
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