Any Serious Godfather fans out there?

Honorary Italian...

 

I don't see how you could say that. The first film definitely was a labor of love by all involved, and Pacino lobbied very hard to be cast as Michael. The filmmakers took a big risk on him. GF2 had similar dynamics by virtue of being made shortly afterward. By the time GF3 was made, the dynamics and motivations were totally different and it had not so much to do with love or cinema as other things; like money--cashing in on the popularity of the earlier films.

 

The one who truly had to deal with it was James Caan. He was chosen as Italian of the year by people who KNEW he wasn't Italian! NOBODY EVER gave Pacino anything for being a Cuban or a Puerto Rican!

 

yea, this is how I can say that; GF3 nearly everybody was dead or gone...it was pretty much a skeleton crew with Pacino and his sister...what do you expect?...just like real life things change people die...I see no problem with GF3 is that OK? can I like it? O' I cannot be a member of the I hate GF# club...that's cool...now accept that I like it and move on...PLEASE stop! LOL. IT was a continuing STORY...with 3 parts...I cannot believe you don't understand that?
like everything in life some will love it and some will hate it...
no one is telling you to like it. : )

 

You ignored what I said. So here it is again. The first film definitely was a labor of love by all involved, and Pacino lobbied very hard to be cast as Michael. The filmmakers took a big risk on him. GF2 had similar dynamics by virtue of being made shortly afterward. By the time GF3 was made, the dynamics and motivations were totally different and it had not so much to do with love or cinema as other things; like money--cashing in on the popularity of the earlier films.

Much of a film's worth and artistic merit lies in the motives for making it. By the time GF3 rolled around it was purely about cashing in on the earlier films' popularity, and there was little to no art involved.

I'm not sure what made you think you could ignore that by addressing cast changes or the even more bizarre comparison to "real life" and the fact that some love it and some hate it.

 

You've been here for almost 12 years - that's long enough to know that nothing I write is cool!

 

Watching The Godfather on AMC (uncut) as I write. Luca sleeps with the fishes.

 

GregM said: ↑
I don't see how you could say that.
in case you misunderstood my last post...and I have nothing further to add...please stop.

in reply to
GregM said: ↑
I don't see how you could say that.

yea, this is how I can say that; GF3 nearly everybody was dead or gone...it was pretty much a skeleton crew with Pacino and his sister...what do you expect?...just like real life things change people die...I see no problem with GF3 is that OK? can I like it? O' I cannot be a member of the I hate GF# club...that's cool...now accept that I like it and move on...PLEASE stop! LOL. IT was a continuing STORY...with 3 parts...I cannot believe you don't understand that?
like everything in life some will love it and some will hate it...
no one is telling you to like it. : )

let's part as friends on this...or better yet, put me on your ignore list. : ) we're done.

 

Haha...uh...no. It's a discussion forum, not an ignore forum. I'm willing to discuss your points but I made a rather important one about the motivation behind the films vis a vis their relative merits. It's great that you like GF3. But you should at least be able to acknowledge a point that is a bit more nuanced than "hate vs love" "friends vs ignore" or whatever you're trying to distill this into.

 

I don't like violence guys. I'm a businessman. Blood is a big expense!

 

As Solozzo sorta found out the hard way:

 

Mary is a very underwritten part that I think any actress would have struggled with - but a better actress might have salvaged something.

The BFI here in London is showing all 3 on the big screen (first 2 digital, 3rd 35mm) in one day next month. I am quite tempted to go.

 

If I was in London at that time I would go! I'd love to see all three of these films on the big screen.

 

I am still waiting for a CD box set collecting all of the wonderful music from all three films. I have all three soundtracks but I still crave hearing "Cavalleria Rusticana" where it belongs at the end of part three. I understand that this particular composition is known as the main theme of "Raging Bull" but it didn't stop them from using it in part three. IMO, the music in these films is as important as everything else.

 

FTFY

 

I have a question about the “union trouble” that The Godfather promises to fix if Johnny got the part. Was this the old protection racket, where the people you are actually paying the mob for protection from is the mob itself?

In other words, was the union trouble a threat, or were they really offering to help if Johnny got the part?

 

"Johnny Fontane never gets that movie"

 

William Morris Bioff - Wikipedia

 

The Corleone family would make the unions under their control to stay away from Woltz Pictures. This would be a benefit, as one of Woltz's biggest stars had gotten addicted to heroin. The Corleones would order the union to force the actor to sober up by cutting off his heroin supply. Even better for Woltz was that Vito Corleone was willing to finance the entire production of his upcoming war movie should Fontaine be cast.

 

It's been years since I read the novel, but I recall Puzo gave more backstory to the Woltz/union situation and is pretty much as described above.

 

To me, the big problem with GF3 is that its "its own movie". Its not a continuation of the adventures of The Corleone Family. It just so happens to have Michael Corleone in it.

I would have MUCH rather seen a movie where Tom Hagan and Michael find themselves in competition for running the Family fortunes, made very difficult because of their bond and love for their father. Hagan wants to take the Family deeper into the traditional syndicate run businesses and thereby making the Corleone Family the most powerful Family once again, while Michael wants to make the Family 100% legitimate by using their fortunes to become partners in several large US corporations with himself having a seat on the boards. That was his dream and his plan. The movie could have focused on the struggle between wrong and right via two honorable men.

I mean, GF3 SHOULD have been a great movie. It wasnt, because the whole idea was to milk the GF franchise for one last movie.

 

Tom was always level-headed. If anything, it'd be the other way around, but then Michael can't redeem himself, OR, he could have changed his ways after an hour into the movie?

 

Disagree. Go by the original movies:


Tom says to the GF : "Right now, we control the Gambling and the Unions, and they are the best things to have, but if we dont get into narcotics, we risk losing everything we have. Not now, but 10 years from now." This shows Tom is committed to the money to be obtained in the rackets.


Michael to Kay: "My fathers way of doing things is finished...even he knows that. In 5 years, the Corelone family will be completely legitimate". I believe he was telegraphing HIS vision of what The Family would become under his direction 5 years hence.


And as for Tom being level headed.......he's pretty scummy in that scene with Senator Geary in the whorehouse.....

 

Tom Hagen's character arc is baffling to me. He's frozen out as consigliere, is pointedly excused from meetings (e.g. Johnny Ola), but after the botched hit Michael appoints him acting Don. We never learn what he did in this capacity, if anything, and later Michael demeans him by telling him he can piss off with his wife and mistress. "Why do you hurt me, Michael?" Why indeed...

 

I think for Michael to keep the family solvent he wanted to run it like a modern corporation. And to do that he had to get rid of the very Sicilian structure within the organization... that is... the consigliere.

Michael did trust Tom. But he led him to believe it was about a lack of confidence on how he handled Sonny's war with the 5 families. Where in reality... Michael did Tom a favor. War and violence were coming.