Any Serious Godfather fans out there?

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by MBERGHAU, May 14, 2008.

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  1. Fastnbulbous

    Fastnbulbous Doubleplus Ungood

    Location:
    Washington DC USA
    And Moe Greene may have the closest real-life parallel in Bugsy Siegel. Right down to getting shot in the eye. The main difference is that Lansky did give the order, at least implicitly, to have Siegel whacked.
     
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  2. Saint Johnny

    Saint Johnny Forum Resident

    Location:
    Asbury Park
    These are my interpratations of Michael's overall motivations as well.

    For me it again comes back to the talk with Brando in the garden.

    Brando: Michael, I never wanted this for you, etc. Senator Corleone, Governor Corleone...
    Pacino: "We'll get there pop, we'll get there."

     
  3. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 V/VIII/MCMLXXVII

    Location:
    OH
    Agreed. The intent of the "Michael Corleone says hello" line seemed self-explanatory to me

    Maybe I think like a mobster. :eek:
     
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  4. Saint Johnny

    Saint Johnny Forum Resident

    Location:
    Asbury Park
    From what I've read this is correct. Lansky was annoyed with Siegel's lavish 'Hollywood Lifestyle', his big mouth, and his failure to pay back Lansky financed loans in due time.

    It's never explicitly stated in the Godfather films as all the characters are basically just presented as 100% fictional. But as I posted upthread, if you know the real stories of the real mobsters, that these characters are very, very loosely based upon. It's far easier to understand the movie/story and character dynamics on a level not immediately apparent to the casual viewer.

    In real life Mayer Lansky (Hyman Roth character) grew up together from their pre-teens, and was best friends with Benny 'Bugsy" Siegel (Moe Green Character). But those two were also good friends growing up as teen thugs, with the real life Frank Costello, Charlie Luciano.
    And those 4 very intertwined very real life criminal stories are kind of seamlessly woven in and out of the Godfather characters fictional lives.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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  5. Vinny123

    Vinny123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Excellent scene.
     
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  6. Vinny123

    Vinny123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Try the veal. It’s the best in the city. I say it every time I order veal parmigiana.
     
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  7. Vinny123

    Vinny123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Gotta check that out. Wonder what kind of system the Corleone family had.
     
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  8. SRC

    SRC That sums up Squatter for me

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Yeah. I'm certainly not going to call Aiello a liar but it seems incongruous, especially if he was so nervous on the set, that he would decide to improvise a line that could have ruined the shot, especially considering that that shot seemed to have involved some degree of discomfort to the actor Michael Gazzo. Aiello says the line and then there is no cut as he then drags Gazzo by his neck down the entire length of the bar.
     
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  9. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo!

    Location:
    NYC

    He was. I remember seeing him on some of the 70s TV shows like Mannix, but right now I cant remember which.
     
  10. reddyempower

    reddyempower Forum Resident

    Location:
    columbus, oh, usa
    I don't understand the Roth death scene.

    Why would Rocco agree to a suicide mission?
     
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  11. Vinny123

    Vinny123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Good question. I’ve always wondered about that. Surely he knew he’d never get away w it. No doubt he was loyal to Michael but you’re right, it was s suicide mission.
     
  12. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    I can’t say that I understand Rocco’s motivation, other than loyalty or fear of saying “no”. Plot wise, I think his suicide mission is there to show how Michael is willing to risk/sacrifice Rocco’s life even after he has “won” just so he can “wipe everybody out”.
     
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  13. Vinny123

    Vinny123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Isn’t it Rocco who said killing Roth was difficult but not impossible?
     
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  14. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Ok, but Michael had underestimated Roth before and it allowed Johnny Ola to flip Fredo and basically create the ultimate rift in what was left of the Corleone family. In that sense the killing stroke was well worth sacrificing a pawn for a king.
     
  15. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Lots of plot points in II don't seem to stand up to scrutiny unless you just accept them.

    I've always said I had no idea exactly what Hyman Roth and Michael Corleone were actually doing with the Cuban government, but it's damn cool to hear him say, "Michael, we're bigger than US Steel."
     
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  16. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Yup. So Rocco pays the price for his own hubris and indulging Michael’s obsession?
     
  17. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Assuming Tom Hagen is still the voice of reason, Hyman Roth has been rendered powerless and will die in prison.
     
  18. JozefK

    JozefK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dixie
    Why did Jack Ruby?

    The staging of Roth's shooting is based on Ruby shooting Oswald, just as young Vito 's shooting the Don (specifically, the Don ripping open his shirt) was inspired by JFK.
     
  19. Mechanical Man

    Mechanical Man I Am Just a Mops

    Location:
    Oakland, CA, USA
    I forget how I initially arrived at this scenario when I set about trying to figure this out years back, but I know I came to the conclusion that the would-be killers arrived by boat and therefore did not have to be let into the compound by anybody. Then upon returning to the boat, they were killed by whomever was on that boat, likely Johnny Ola, to remove any trace back to Roth. The one clue is when Rocco, I think, says something about the shooters looking like they were from New York. My guess is that they were anonymous hired thugs with no provable ties to Roth, and the plan had always been to kill them once they had shot up Michael's house. As you say, the curtains remain a mystery.

    The connection is that they (Roth & Michael) were operating casinos in Cuba under the protection of the friendly Batista government. The amount of money they were generating (and kicking back) was on par with US Steel and the rest of the "legitimate" corporations, thereby allowing them a literal seat at the table.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
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  20. Jack Lord

    Jack Lord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    It is not my original theory, but I have read others speculate that it is Rocco who lets the hit men into the compound and then kills them after they have failed to wack Micheal. Killing Roth in what was obviously a suicide mission was his way of going out honorably- much like Frankie. Why else would Michael send one of his right hand men to do it?

    Fredo could not have offed the assassins. Rocco could. And Michael has to demand that Rocco get them alive, which he does not. He also points out to Tom that Rocco and Al have business loyalty, but no blood loyalty.
     
  21. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Having sold Michael out, would Rocco turn around and offer himself for a probable suicide mission when all he had to do was agree with Tom that killing Roth was impossible and unnecessary?

    Vito described Al Neri as "your Luca Brasi" to Michael - someone whose trust was permanent and undeniable. That very trust seems to have helped do Luca in, because Tattaglia and Sollozzo clearly didn't believe him when he suggested his loyalty might be up for sale. But Michael ultimately trusts no one, and opts to import a bodyguard from Sicily rather than having Al protect him after the hit attempt.
     
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  22. Chazro

    Chazro Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Palm Bch, Fl.
    I've read that Meyer Lansky actually said this to Lucky Luciano!
     
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  23. Jack Lord

    Jack Lord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Rocco accepting the suicide mission is predicated on Michael already knowing of his treason. Like Frankie, he can go out with a modicum of redemption and his family will be taken care of.

    It's just a theory. But seeing as the alternative is Fredo- probably drunk and pissed off from the party- smuggles in and then offs two highly trained assassins under everyone's nose, I think it is more than plausible.
     
  24. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Tom Hagen was not at all effective in predicting anything Roth's organization was up to. Criminal enterprises can be commanded by leaders in prison. The lessons Michael learned from his father: it's not worth taking a chance, especially when you're in a position of power. It also sends a powerful message to those who may consider going to war with Michael later that they will end up dead.
     
  25. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Yeah, I can't buy this. Michael killed his own brother for less - why would he give Rocco even a fighting chance? Rocco would be crashing with the carps in a New York minute.
     
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