Genesis - did they really sell out?

Surprised it took this long

 

By experience I've learned that it's pointless talking with someone that labels other peoples opinions as "nonsense".

 

Agreed. I'd love someone to tell me exactly "how" they sold out? It's just musical evolution in this case. Yes, some do not like it and that's fine. But this board is FULL of people talking about bands they say "don't exist" after a certain album to those people. (As if their opinion is something that can and should change history).

As time goes on, I hear less of change from their earlier period to their later period than I used to when I was younger.

 

Make the music they wanted to make.

If they did, then it's not selling out.

If they dumbed down the music, trading artistic integrity for money, then they sold out.

BTW, I like Abacab.

 

Yeah, it's extra funny the 587th time!

 

It was a lame hit. Prog fans like catchy tunes too. To lose Hackett, change things up, and have a pop hit that was a musical disappointment was a lot to bear, especially in the year of punk rock. I like Turn it on again but nothing else after W&W.

 

Perhaps they had become as bored of Prog as everyone else had at the time.

 

Anybody who actually thinks pop music was more commercial in the 80s than at any time in the 70s doesn’t know what they’re talking about.

I love the same Genesis albums you do, probably just as much. But I don’t think they fell off a cliff in 1975 or ‘78. For me it’s ‘83. A few things after that are ok.

All this is a rehash of the album-by-album thread anyway.

 

It's 2019. Who hasn't sold out?

 

Whether or not they were a prog band had nothing to do with whether or not they sold out. Call it what you will, they went from mostly playing songs too long to have a chance of being hits with lyrics about mythic and fantasy characters that had nothing in common with typical rock/pop listeners experiences to being a band that ensured every album had a bunch of songs short enough to get played on the radio with lyrics about romantic interactions - the same topic that most other songs being played on the radio were about.

Again I am not saying that it is a bad thing for musicians to start making music with a broader appeal - and I disagree with the pejorative connotations attached to the "sell out" phrase.

But whether or not their older music was prog, they successfully switched to making a style of music that would get played on the radio more, sell more copies, and lead to more concert ticket sales.

 

Yes and shamefully so.

 

I always thought Abacab the song was prog.

 

Then they needed to be less boring in response.

 

Bingo

 

My opinion of Genesis is that it's all boring. Ah well.

 

I am big fan of the Peter Gabriel era but did like the 3 post-Gabriel albums ending with "And Then There Were Three". I started losing interest with the Duke album when they started moving toward the pop Top 40's direction.

That being said I don't think they sold out but only started changing musical direction as band members changed.

Reminds me of the changes Fleetwood Mac went through from the hardcore blues band Peter Green era to the Nicks/ Buckingham version pop hits version of the band. Not a sell out just change in musical direction.

 

Sure, Genesis were, in essence, pop ; they were fans (who were not ?) of the Beatles, Stones, soul music (Collins & Gabriel) etc... and had some solid classical backgrounds too (Bach for Hackett, Rachmaninoff & Ravel for Banks). But, and that's what had made them great, they didn't want to make pop songs only, with three verses, three chorus and one solo. So, we got all these incredible albums from Trespass to The Lamb, and some more till Duke. God bless the 70's !

 

Tried to get tickets once, and they were definitely sold out.....

 

I think so and I certainly know what I'm talking about, but those who don't know that the music climate (and the whole society) dramatically changed in the 80's in a drastically commercial direction that made rock and pop music move in the same direction, certainly does not - but like I said, I find no point in debating this further with you, please respect that.

 

Me

 

I think "selling out" is a silly term, it's not like Genesis were the champions of a cause which they betrayed. They were popular entertainers, not political leaders, or tribunes of the oppressed. But I also think it's naive to imagine their later music was the outcome of an "artistic" decision. It was pretty clearly a financial decision, in the main. And also a consequence of incipient middle age, I would think.

 

They have abandoned prog because they conquered a widered audience with poppy songs, handing over the reins to the new generation (Dream Theater, Symphony X, Porcupine Tree, Steven Wilson, Planet X, Shadow Gallery (& their late great singer Mike Baker RIP) ). In my opinion, they didn't sell out : they just had nothing more to give in the prog's register.

 

I agree with that I've put in bold.

 

Brief as it is, that article gets right at the heart of the matter--they evolved. Genesis were all real, and talented, musicians and songwriters. The move to shorter, more accessible songs appealed to them, so they did it. And good for them. I didn't care for "I Can't Dance" or "Illegal Alien," but they weren't doing it for me. You can't say a band doing exactly what they want is "selling out," can you? If you make music many people like, there is an inevitable financial reward for that, which few would complain about. I mean, if it was all about the music and nothing else, why not just play in a closet at home.

 

WTF does that even mean? A statement like that is just utter nonsense. Did progressive music stop being progressive after a certain point?

Was making more pop-friendly, assessable music the absolutely only direction that Genesis could have gone musically after The Lamb?