Schiit Sol- The Next Great Turntable?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by msinderson, Sep 5, 2019.

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  1. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    ...oh and looking at the part of the video I linked where they show cartridge installation...simply changing the terminals they used to something shorter would return several MM of room, which would allow for easier installation/setup or larger cartridges.

    It is almost as if some real smart guy designed that table, and then execution of production was left to someone that doesn't understand the nuances.

    Having now built my own turntable and tonearm, I can spot the genius in the Schiit design.
     
  2. Ken Clark

    Ken Clark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago Suburbs
    At 1:21 in the video that platter has a noticeable wobble.
     
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  3. Ripblade

    Ripblade Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Six
    That's correct. The tell tale sign is a seam transiting the width of the belt. These come off the spool as string of rubber and cut to length then joined to form a loop. This is the easiest way to get a belt of custom length or fulfill an order quickly, but care has to be taken to avoid twisting the string before it's welded. Alternative is to cast the belt, but this requires a mould and possibly grinding afterwards, which is considerably more expensive and only provides a cost benefit when large quantities are needed. These are what you normally find with established products and Schiit will probably offer one when the Sol gets off the ground.
     
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  4. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    It is very nominal, the camera is being held by hand at that point and is shaky.

    The degree of wobble is so minimal that one could likely eliminate it by adjusting the spindle relative to the platter.

    That is, make a witness mark with a felt-tip market, and rotate the spindle relative to the platter by 180-degrees. Check for wobble and adjust where necessary.

    That could be a video all by itself.

    Heck, the degree is so minimal it might be because of debris left behind from machining. Some of the videos clearly show debris left behind. A small brush and cloth should be used during assembly.
     
  5. Ripblade

    Ripblade Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Six
    As lead hand in a custom millwork fabricating shop, I face this dilemma on a daily basis. Not only experience, but pride and care are also essential ingredients when work passes hands. A lot of problems get through in the rush to fill the order.
     
  6. Kyhl

    Kyhl On break

    Location:
    Savage
    I didn't have the sound on but isn't that before the platter is tightened down?
     
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  7. Optimize

    Optimize Forum Resident

    Location:
    EU
    It will be interesting to see how this product type is played out by Schiit.
    Because their electronic is based on to be so cheap that it they're hardly any room for repairs. And Schiit is dependent on very low return rate to make an profit.
    This TT is a totally different animal.
     
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  8. Kyhl

    Kyhl On break

    Location:
    Savage
    I agree. It is interesting how different a product this is. I like some of the fiddly nature to it. For now, there are too many growing pains for me to invest.

    I also wonder about the antiskate setup. The weight is connected to the side of the arm via a lever. The lever is attached to the bottom of the O.
    Force pulling on the lever could torque the arm one way. Force pulling on the bottom of the O could torque the arm the other way. The height of the lever in relation to the distance to the connection point could possibly zero out the two opposite torques but only for a given force, weight. Meaning only two antiskate settings, on or off.

    If the stylus shape used requires less antiskate than designed, what is someone to do?
    I suppose if you rig your own weight, which I do with my current table, one could adjust the azimuth to match the change in force on the lever.

    It is a fiddly contraption. The more I think about it, the more I see this is not at all for people expecting plug and play.
    I might like it if it works.
     
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  9. Ken Clark

    Ken Clark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago Suburbs
    If that's the reason one would have thought they would have reviewed the video before posting. Even a slightly different camera angle would have masked that.
     
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  10. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    Indeed. To their credit, I suppose, it seems Schiit has been stressing that from the beginning.
     
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  11. Victor Martell

    Victor Martell Forum Resident

    Not a shill, I swear, but that is why I like them - very upfront - what company limits their market and warn in advance? - thinking of companies like exercise equipment companies... ads make it look like anybody can get buff - reality, well... :D

    (on the other hand, exercise equipment doubles wonderfully as clothes drying contraptions!)

    v
     
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  12. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I have to wonder what they were doing the whole time it took to develop the Sol, though. Surely there was plenty of time for beta testing and discovering these issues, and absolutely enough to measure all the specs. Maybe part of the low price tag is that they didn’t actually put that many man hours into it over the period of time it has been “in development”? I get this is primarily a DAC and amp manufacturer, so it would make some sense to me that this was always on the back burner for them, but there are basic errors on display here, which took users and observers on internet forums a matter of days to discover.
     
  13. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Also one of the few products that depreciates faster than audio gear. :)
     
  14. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Maybe some last-minute substitutions were made for the purposes of production?

    If it was under development for six+ years, there is a chance they FORGOT why they made some of the choices (certain cartridge terminals, for example) earlier on.
     
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  15. zombiemodernist

    zombiemodernist Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeastern USA
    IIRC the design was kicked off my a self proclaimed digital guy, and contracted out to an engineer with little to no experience in the turntable department, and it probably wasn't pressure tested enough with analog heads.

    Another major thing to realize is some of these flaws are down to design, which is an art in to itself, outside of the science of engineering. Some things are probably blatantly wrong from an engineering perspective, but that's outside my wheelhouse so I'll leave that for others to discuss. Sure this works and produces sound, but it seems the user friction is coming because it's difficult to use. Although the raw "industrial" look may work for some, and Schiit may very well work with an industrial designer, its very clear that they haven't considered this turntable as an object that users interact with, and thus delivered something that so far has generated some negative user feedback. To me this is currently seeming to fail in both form and function, where almost every other deck on the market succeeds. Difficult adjustability, lack of ability to mount some common carts, poor instructions are all evidence to me of a company cutting corners on design.
     
  16. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Before Rocky Mountain, I would have agreed. But the RMAF version looked and felt and sounded like a finished product. Sound was limited by a budget cartridge but it still sounded good. The arm felt more solid than earlier version and the platter and plinth assembly was pretty tight. My guess is that anti-skate won't be a big deal on this table.
     
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  17. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I've been talking to Jason off and on for three years about this table. They put many, many man-hours into it.
     
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  18. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Clearly some decent engineering has gone into it. Maybe they just needed more of the right people testing the final product, mounting a variety of commonly used cartridges, etc.
     
  19. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo!

    Location:
    NYC
    It is a fiddly contraption. The more I think about it, the more I see this is not at all for people expecting plug and play.
    I might like it if it works.[/QUOTE]


    >>>>>>LOL! Plug and Play it Aint!!!

    To me, what makes the TT look chintzy is the thin, tubelike tonearm. It looks like they used a straw!
     
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  20. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    It would not have been hard to test. These are amateur hour errors. User Experience and Human Factors Engineering folks would've laughed this thing out of the room if they were told this was a production model.
     
  21. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Backburner project, announced too soon, run into sourcing problems with parts, don't want hype to fizzle out, so they launch production without proper final testing. Now they can make excuses that "it's just a kit for hobbyists" to excuse their sloppy errors. All this was very predictable from the moment they showed a prototype.
     
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  22. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    It needs more of the right people doing the assembly. Since the cartridge when aligned is angled the leads should not be that big an issue. Other alignment issues appear to require a lot of forethought. One annoying thing is many of the adjustment bolts are fairly difficult to access and require a contortionist. Looks like if you can align the platter and motor drive properly the belt should work fine. The antiscate looks pretty difficult to achieve very accurately. Certainly something for the experienced. Not that much more complicated than Michell but that is designed better so things line up without so many adjustments. Having adjustable feet would certainly save a lot of fiddling and the platter height could be fixed. An eccentric weight would make horizontal arm leveling easier as was used by Mayware. The Schitt unipivot is very tricky to adjust and they should have taken some hint from old designs such as Mayware. Don't like the way the cable twists round the pivot. Also this deck isn't going to be that speed stable. I would suggest a Project speedbox, if voltage compatible version, instead of the wall wart. Comments based on the video.
     
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  23. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    They (Shiit) got a lot right. They'll shorten-up the cartridge terminals and figure-out the belt seeking.

    I'm guessing Shiit's response will be better than Apple's response to phones that drop calls if you don't hold them a certain way.
     
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  24. Melted Townes

    Melted Townes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    I see only two options here as to why this table was put into production and shipped with such a glaring design flaw in the head shell.

    1) As embarrassing as it sounds, no one at the company knows how to to properly align a phono cartridge? I suppose this is possible, they are a company focused on DACs and amps. Although they do seem to know enough to sub contract out the geometry and alignment of the arm to Conrad Hoffman. They really had a cartridge shootout at their store with poorly aligned cartridges? At no point did someone mention that 80% of the cartridges they mounted had no clearance to allow for alignment?

    Or

    2) At least one or more people on the design team discovered the issue at some point along the way. If this is the case then someone made the decision to go forward with rolling the product out to the consumers. If this is the case then it is nothing short of consumer fraud. I like to think that this is not what happened.

    We will find out a lot about this companies ethics based on their response to the consumers who purchased the table.
     
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  25. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I would certainly hope so, however, I don't have a lot of faith in this company. Historically it has taken them years to address flaws in other products and those were things that sold well, not a "kit" with a "for DIYers only" disclaimer. Don't hold your breath too long.
     
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