Time for the Vinyl Revival to GET REAL

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by AudioAddict, Oct 5, 2019.

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  1. AudioAddict

    AudioAddict Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Wal-mart is now selling vinyl and the industry as a whole is getting behind a big push to bring back this medium.
    Always looking for a reason to buy new audio stuff, began assembling an all-analog vinyl system 6 weeks ago. There is good news and bad news...
    GOOD NEWS
    The Steve Hoffman site has been an indispensable resource for learning how to purchase and configure turntables. Thanks yet one more time! The good folk on this site who spend the time and effort to assist newbies KNOW WHO THEY ARE...
    When vinyl works, the waveform accuracy, transient detail, and immediate naturalness provides an audio experience not just better than CD, but also memorable and worth the substantial effort.
    BAD NEWS
    Once you have setup your system, you need to get the vinyl. And, fortunately for me, I had 50 records held since the 1980s, some of which were NOS. Began by listening to these and comparing them to CDs. Then, went to the local stores to buy new vinyl. Ran across two major problems: bad vinyl pressings and unclear product description.
    Every 3rd new album purchased has had so much noise it could not be listened to – more noise than music. Returning these has become ever more of a chore as the stores do not want to accept returns.
    When choosing the album, most will be occupied with the composer/band and selections. But us audiophiles want to know if it is an all analogue pressing and whether that pressing conforms to high production standards. Mostly, this information is unavailable.
    SO VINYL INDUSTRY PLEASE LISTEN!
    If you want this revival to be more than a flash-in-the-pan then you need to improve the pressing quality and institute a product description system like the DDD one used in CDs. As an example, use “AA” for a record recorded on analog tape, mixed down to a stereo tape master, and printed directly off of that master. “DD” would indicate a digital recording, mixed in a DAW then pressed. Improve this idea as you like, but those of us purchasing vinyl need the information.
    With the defect rate so high, will not be purchasing new vinyl in the future. Will, however, continue to buy used records and have had a better success rate here. And, based on the date, can make sure that the source is all analog.
    Very knowledgeable pundits on this site can improve the suggestions above; have at it, gentlemen.
     
  2. Kevin j

    Kevin j The 5th 99

    Location:
    Seattle Area
    it's already real, and has been for years. welcome to the club.
     
  3. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    Check out Acoustic Sounds online. They always provide good information about the releases and many titles have multiple reviews from buyers. They also carry many premium labels and the best pressings available. And, they also have pre-owned in Mint minus condition only.
    Vinyl Records, SACDs, DVD Audio, Audiophile Equipment|Acoustic Sounds
     
  4. Mmmark

    Mmmark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Is this comment some kind of time capsule from 15 years ago? The future is now, man....
     
  5. vinylkid58

    vinylkid58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Victoria, B.C.
    Sometimes vinyl sounds UNREAL!:D

    jeff
     
    Tim 2 likes this.
  6. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    Here's the innovation in record playing that you need to make this happen!

     
  7. Schoolmaster Bones

    Schoolmaster Bones Poe's Lawyer

    Location:
    ‎The Midwest
    WELCOME TO 2005!
     
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  8. uzn007

    uzn007 Pack Rat

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    Chris DeVoe:
    Shark Tank:
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. AudioAddict

    AudioAddict Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Boltman: Yes, thanks for the suggestion. Had already found these folks and others.
    But it is interesting that no-one will respond to the main point of my post which is that there needs to be a system in place to determine the nature of the vinyl product. In the real world, you do not know what you are buying. Is it analog recorded or mastered? Is it copied from a CD? Has it been remastered from either analog or digital tape?
    Comments tell you as much about the field/topic as do the OP and the intelligent audiophiles who participate in this forum can draw accurate conclusions from the above.
     
    bever70 likes this.
  10. ls35a

    ls35a Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, Idaho
    The vinyl resurgence is old audiophile guys like us who all want really good copies of Dark Side of the Moon, Hotel California, Beatles, etc. Once we've all built up our collections of classic rock this is going to slow down hard. There's not enough new music worth buying to keep this going forever.
     
    FrankieP, Tjazz, bluesaddict and 5 others like this.
  11. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    It's definitely the device for the next "Hipster plays vinyls" meme.
     
    ssmith3046 likes this.
  12. cwitt1980

    cwitt1980 Senior Member

    Location:
    Carbondale, IL USA

    Quality of pressings has always, always, always been inconsistent. It's best to research any new product. Every record bought will always be a gamble.

    Beyond quality, the record industry needs to go back to the method where if shops purchase LPs, they can send them back if they don't sell. In most cases, vinyl is nonreturnable. How can a small store buy every new release if they have no idea if it will sell. If it doesn't sell, it usually winds up on the internet below cost. To me, that is the biggest problem with the so-called revival. But yeah, my main beef is the industry making it harder on small stores and I have an inkling to think they are sending way too much to Amazon and not to store distributors. So many new things come out and the store I work for cannot get it on it's release date. BUT, there are plenty of copies on Amazon. I'm sure places like WalMart get a deal where they can send stuff back and not worry about whether it sells or not. I just think the 'industry' needs to not put out crap product and expect everyone else to pay for it. And don't get me started on RSD!
     
  13. Gaslight

    Gaslight ⎧⚍⎫⚑

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    I give it two years tops

    Everyone's moving to iPod's. 30gb in your pocket, can't be beat
     
  14. Schoolmaster Bones

    Schoolmaster Bones Poe's Lawyer

    Location:
    ‎The Midwest
    I'm fine with the way it's been going for the past 15 years or so. Very few complaints.

    Admittedly, I cannot speak from the perspective of someone who began assembling an all-analog vinyl system 6 weeks ago.
     
  15. A good way to find out info on new pressings is to use Discogs via website or app.

    Type in the catalog number or simply look up the album title and find one of the later LP pressings on the list. More often than not, there will be information regarding lacquer cuts, pressing plants, and possibly source tapes/files.

    For example, I was on the fence regarding a purchase of the newly remixed Abbey Road. I went to Discogs, scrolled down to the 2019 US LP version, and saw that it was pressed by QRP, with which I’ve had some success (rather than a more inconsistent presser like Rainbo). Bingo! Purchase made. Satisfied listener.

    I wish that I had used this ten years ago or so. I might’ve saved myself many bad new LP purchases.

    And I agree with you that there should be a standard like AAA, but I don’t think that labels like UMe, which dominates the market, will humble itself to a standard that may hurt its sales—unless it can be convinced that such a rating will enhance them.

    Happy hunting,

    Bill
     
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  16. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    The good, the bad and the ugly.
    Agreed.
    To the OP- welcome to the wonderful world of records.
    Although I was happy about the resurgence in interest, the Death of Vinyl™ Part II probably wouldn't affect me one bit. I will buy some reissues if they fill a niche and/or the record is otherwise unobtanium, but the richest discoveries for me have been oddball obscurities from the days of yore that are often not reissued at all or, if so, by companies that don't necessarily fulfill the promise of high quality pressings or best sources. It is what it is.
    Getting the "industry" to adhere to high quality standards is pretty unlikely in my view, in part because it is no longer as monolithic as it once was in some ways. The 'major' labels are very inconsistent in how they approach releases on LP. Even among the premium "audiophile" labels you will see quality issues. Small labels and bands without the resources to pay for top flight mastering, pressing and packaging may just be releasing in the format to check that box.
    If new vinyl releases stopped tomorrow, you'd still have a few lifetimes of music to sort through.
    Frankly, the longer I do this, the more amazed I am that the entire concept of grooved media played back by stylus tracing works at all.
     
  17. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    Understood...At AS, Analogue Productions label is as described. So is Mobile Fidelity. Both labels come at premium pricing but are 100% analog mastering. Quality Record Pressings (QRP) is also something to look for on the AS site. There are tons of crappy new re-issues for sure. You really have to just research the titles. I'm not buying a lot of new re-issues lately though. I have been shopping at Discogs instead and not worrying about the re-issue crapshoot (and spending less money per title).
     
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  18. tman53

    tman53 Vinyl is an Addiction

    Location:
    FLA
    The industry doesn't care, they are all about money and it doesn't matter how it's done. Left to their own devices, they'll run the vinyl resurgence into the ground and then ask what happened.

    It's the people here who care (this isn't only place) and like most of us you'll have to research and read through posts to make sure you're informed.
     
  19. Schoolmaster Bones

    Schoolmaster Bones Poe's Lawyer

    Location:
    ‎The Midwest
    Remember, the SPARS code was abandoned because it was useless and arbitrary. Just another excuse to raise the price based on the misconception that a digital-sourced CD is inherently superior to an analog-sourced CD (or, vice versa with vinyl).

    This excerpt from wiki gives a good example:
    Great sounding records (and CDs) sound great because of good engineering and quality control, not because they're analog or digital. It's always been that way.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
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  20. George Blair

    George Blair Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I agree with the OP's suggestion that a rating system for vinyl is a good idea. It wouldn't cost any more than the rating for CD's when they were introduced. Why not? Most CD buyers probably ignored the information, but it was there for those to whom it concerned.
     
  21. uzn007

    uzn007 Pack Rat

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    They'll have to pry my Zune out of my cold, dead hands.
     
  22. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    I think this is right. I was a vinyl-only guy forever, and am now far more sanguine about digital recordings, both as a source for LPs as well as in digital media.
     
  23. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    Problem is accuracy and labels thinking a 'Digitally Sourced' tag could possibly hurt sales. It won't happen.
    SPARS weren't even accurate at the time.
     
  24. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.
    Well, you're not gonna' get that. Vinyl has such a small market share....and most who buy it don't seem to care.
    You'll just need to stick with vintage vinyl or do research on the new reissues.
    The audiophile orientated businesses and this forum are a great place to start.
     
    Mitko 45 and patient_ot like this.
  25. AudioAddict

    AudioAddict Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Well, I agree and have a story today to tell you and all concerning this.
    A (mostly) used record store I go to has a policy of not accepting returns on New Vinyl. Used vinyl is fine, they take it back, no questions asked, for 7 day. So I purchased an Adele 25 here and it was clearly defective (a bunch). They would not take it back and it went into the trash.
    So, today, purchased another new album there (not too bright of me, I think...) of the modern composer Arvo Part. This is a DMM cutting, direct from analogue to disk and the reason why I took the chance. It's an EU pressing by Vinyl Passion.
    Surprise! Surprise!
    This is as close to a perfect vinyl pressing as I have heard. Shows how good vinyl can be for large orchestral forces. Stunning in its quality and realism -- and is very quiet as well. An example of how good vinyl can be when the time and effort is taken.
    But, as stressed above, you can't tell what is "DMM" and what is something else from most of the current records available.
     
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