Power Cables... Do they really matter?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by PinkIsTheSky, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. G E

    G E Senior Member

    Others have mentioned room acoustic treatment and I agree this should be your next focus.

    Power cords do make a difference. I participated in a single blind test of 3 piwwr cords. Two from the same company.

    I could distinguish the difference and correctly identified the two from the same company. There wasn’t a huge difference but there were improvements. Pangea and I forgot the other one. Merlin speakers and McIntosh amplification.

    But I was not prepared for the enormous improvement when I put cardas clear beyond power cables on my Bryston 28 amps.

    The volume of music increased notably. I don’t refer to loudness but the 3d improvement in sound. All of a sudden I had a much larger sound stage. The bass was more impactful, to the point I had to put more loading washers on my passive radiators.

    This was new territory for me. There was no “I think I hear a difference”. There was no denying the difference.

    Signal cables also contribute to the quality of sound down stream. But we aren’t talking about that here.

    And yes, my room is acoustically treated with ceiling to floor bass traps in corners and sound absorption panels. Not done yet. Ceiling next!
     
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  2. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, ID, USA
    What he said ... I haven't really done power cord upgrades with the exception of trying one inexpensive one (don't recall the details, but I didn't hear a difference). Then I got a Shunyata Venom 3 (long discontinued) which I got for $99 (was $149 list) ... hmmmm, this did make a difference (more space, detail). I think I used it on my preamp ... my system remains in boxes for the moment awaiting setup in my new house in Idaho ... :(

    They now sell the Venom 14 (14 ga wire instead of 12 but for my components that's not an issue). I might be tempted to get some of these when I get things going again.
     
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  3. PinkIsTheSky

    PinkIsTheSky Old Blues Man Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan
    Hmm, well I really enjoyed reading, and appreciate all the replies!

    As I mentioned, the A21 has no audible hiss or hum, or any notion of electrical noise, this was all just a curiosity.

    Although I hadn't considered a proper surge protector/ power conditioner, I think that would be a smart investment as I'd hate to accidentally have my gear fried. So thanks everyone for that suggestion!

    As far as acoustic upgrades however, I think room treatment is the next step. I wish I wasn't so lazy sometimes cause I really don't wanna pay up the behind for some good pieces of foam.
     
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  4. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    Just for kicks, I might try one of the Pangea cords from Audio Advisor. They seem to be more sanely priced.
     
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  5. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    Congrats on the A21 btw. Furman makes some affordable AC conditioners. Their Merit and Classic series mostly under $200 and industrial quality.
     
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  6. PinkIsTheSky

    PinkIsTheSky Old Blues Man Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan
    Thanks man, I'll have to look into a Furman, seems reasonable!
     
  7. JNTEX

    JNTEX Lava Police

    Location:
    Texas
    So I guess you have never seen all the custom stuff shunyata and other companies like transparent make here in the old good USA?
     
  8. tubesandvinyl

    tubesandvinyl Forum Resident

    If you are impressed with Cardas clear beyond, you should get Tchernov Reference power cords. Better balanced, more organic sounding, and just plain better. I sold all my Cardas clear beyond power cords.
     
  9. JNTEX

    JNTEX Lava Police

    Location:
    Texas
    I know of a couple. I had a conversation with Audio Research, they openly will tell you what they use in the development of an amp.
     
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  10. PinkIsTheSky

    PinkIsTheSky Old Blues Man Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan

    Ahh yes, that sounds nice let me look into that *$1,300*

    Ahh guess I will be purchasing those when I'm dead. lmao.
     
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  11. Fruff76

    Fruff76 L100 Classic - Fan Club President

    Did they mention any of the notable ones to you?
     
  12. D700

    D700 Just Add Scotch

    Location:
    USA
    You can set aside the debate on sound quality (wire is wire in my experience)...but sometimes there's even better reason to upgrade: crappy mechanical connections. The standard US power cord is a slip fit after all. I can't tell you how many I've seen them partially work their way out of the socket (either on the unit itself or the wall). Usually the heavier the cord, worse it is ...or when the cord is way too long or short, especially when shoved back in cabinets.

    So buy some that have good connection grip and are the right length for your installation. If you get better sound, consider it a happy byproduct of not accidentally electrocuting yourself.
     
    timind likes this.
  13. JNTEX

    JNTEX Lava Police

    Location:
    Texas
    Yes, and there are citations on the web in many of the reviews of their equipment. I spoke with Dave Gordon about 3 weeks ago about this.

    Shunyata (Richard) also are very open to questions if you call them. And not just about their equipment.

    I have a 15a dedicated circuit in a single family home, with two properly connected ground rods. I was able to listen to my setup without power conditioning and with stock cords for a bit-sure my stuff sounded great, before demoing nice cords. Granted we are talking about cords here that costs as much as a single component. It made a large difference for me in noise floor and definition in highs/lows. I was skeptical at first, but after hearing side x side on my system and other demo systems, I spent some coin for directed areas of the system that would get the most bang for the buck.

    But, there is a rhyme and reason to how you approach it and spend money. A phone call to shunyata with Richard will clear this up. Some cords work better with some components depending on if their tube rectified, etc.
     
  14. siebrand

    siebrand music lover

    Location:
    Italy
    you surely are not the only one speaking well about PS Audio P10 power regenerators.
    I have no experience with power regenerators at my home.
    A friend of mine uses a PS Audio P10 power regenerator like yours.
    Expensive, but really good.
    When I listened to the difference, it was hard to believe, I must say.
    He agreed that.... he'll bring it to my home, thereafter i can hear if it makes the difference even at MY home ...

    to be honest ... like you ... I hope it will not be "hearable..." . :D (I currently have no money to invest ...:blah: )
     
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  15. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Put me in the camp that thinks changing the last six feet of wiring that stretches tens to hundreds of feet back to your meter, then tens to hundreds of feet to your transformer, is pretty pointless.
     
  16. yodog

    yodog Well-Known Member

    I recommend avoiding the AC14 mkii signature power cable for all power amps, ac power conditioners, subwoofers, receivers and preamps.

    I actually don’t recommend any power cable Pangea audio offers for the components I listed except for the ac9 mkii signature power cable — yes the giant Potentially equipment damaging anaconda power cable with the most savage 3 prong grip ever lol.

    If you ask why, let’s just say though you get more detail and clarity, there is just no musicality or sense of timing or size or air or space. Just sounds flat and actually worse than most stock / factory oem power cables from my experience. I am not the first one to mention this as there are others who would agree that most Pangea audio power cables are not really cut out for power amps or conditioners or receivers except for the ac9 mkii (not even the regular ac9) signature power cable. Hope this helps you save a few bucks and helps you buy the product that’ll actually make a positive difference for its intended purpose.
     
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  17. siebrand

    siebrand music lover

    Location:
    Italy
    is "Silcable" sold in USA?
    it's not cheap... but ...
    if you have a sound system of a certain quality ... a good power cable certainly makes the difference ... it raises the sound a little higher. On my NuVista M3 I opted for this

    [​IMG]

    the signal cable from the yamaha CD S3000 is of the same brand ...
    Does the signal cable or the current cable make more difference? obviously ... we can't issue judgments. It will depend on the case.
    I tend to think that ... well, let's say ...
    Power cable can be worth 8, signal cable 6.5 / 7
    [​IMG]

    by the way... powercable to my CD-S3000 si filtered by a Black noise V2 extreme.
    [​IMG]
    it make's the difference?
    sure. it does.... :edthumbs:
     
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  18. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    Thanks for the heads up on that. I did notice only the AC9 was high current rated. It is a 7awg cable? Geez. Thanks!
     
  19. It might just be me, but I wouldn't use any power cord that isn't UL listed (regardless of any sonic improvements), especially one connected to a high amperage amplifier. I often don't see this mentioned - one way or the other - on boutique cable web sites.
     
  20. Mike from NYC

    Mike from NYC Senior Member

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    I bought Pangea cables and heard a difference for the better.
     
  21. BayouTiger

    BayouTiger Forum Resident

    OK. I am something of a cable skeptic at a point, Not that I don't think they matter, but I think diminishing returns kick in fairly quickly. That said, I am wondering that if one is comparing two cables, would you expect the best results from a.) a larger gauge, or b.) better shielding, or c.) some exotic conductor material. I'm sure the obvious answer is d.) all of the above, but I think there are a lot of cables that only tick a box or two and in many cases one manufacturer will disagree on the benefits of the different designs.

    Another curiosity is why so many favor very hefty cables but I don't see that many 20A IEC connectors on amps (My Ref75SE has one).
     
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  22. amgradmd

    amgradmd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    Where's your sense of adventure?? :rolleyes:
     
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  23. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    Did you put them on your amplifiers? Which models??(Pangea)
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  24. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Yep, I was astonished when I experienced the less than snug fit for my shaver plug in New York, is that true of the fit in general?

    The standard 3-prong plug in the UK is a great design, and ensures a tight fit to the wall socket. The supply is generally very good over here too which I understand can be an issue in the States.
     
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  25. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I think that is why, in the US, the boiler plate audio upgrade is to fit Hubbell hospital grade plugs and sockets for power. In principle they *ought* to be better than our UK plugs because, being 110V the current is more than double that in the 240V UK supply - so the contact resistance should be 1/4.

    I have no idea whether that is right or not.

    I've measured the pin/socket resistance of (clean and bright, deoxit treated) UK mains plugs, and get a fairly consistent 1 milliohm. Which at rated 13A is 0.17W per pin - so 0.34W in total. I haven't done the measurement for regular grotty tarnished pins/sockets but expect those to be significantly greater than 1 milliohm.

    Ah - after posting this I found this https://www.missinglinkcables.co.uk/cable-research which suggests that the contact resistance of regular tarnished plug/socket is about 17 milliohms.
     
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