Tone Controls, why not!

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Phono Groove, Oct 6, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. I usually play flat however my Rotel has tone controls and I occasionally add +1 or +2 to the bass. I'm happy to have the option since it is not a perfect world. .
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  2. Vinyl is final

    Vinyl is final Not Insane - I have a sense of humor

    Location:
    South central, KY
    Yeah. No tone control will take the place of bass traps. But tone controls give you control over the sound that can be pretty useful.
     
    The Pinhead, Mike-48 and Mazzy like this.
  3. russk

    russk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    Tone controls are bad. Use cables and roll tubes to accomplish the same thing like the rest of us audiophiles.
     
    Old Zorki II likes this.
  4. Stuart S

    Stuart S Back Jack

    Location:
    lv
    Depends

    Tone contols come in handy when playing stuff like Van Halen and some Rush stuff , since they jack around with the EQ before releasing their goodness.

    Van Halen- turn down the treble a little, boost the bass
    Same for some Rush albums in the middle of their career, but the opposite on their last few albums.

    The Police- DONT MESS WITH TONE CONTROLS- prefect the way they are!

    Tone control KNOBS should be a must in a car, but on new cars they are missing.
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  5. Vinyl is final

    Vinyl is final Not Insane - I have a sense of humor

    Location:
    South central, KY
    Actually, that is the whole point of tone controls. However, you won't "completely" correct bad sound.

    When I make studio recordings, I apply a parametric equalizer to a lot of sounds after the fact. I may even apply it to the "almost" final mix. That is all people are doing when they use tone controls on their playback system. You want more bass, you turn up the bass. Does it sound muddy, you might turn the bass down. Likewise with the highs.

    Though I like the room and speakers to be as well matched as possible, sometimes I just need to turn a frequency or two up or down.
     
    The Pinhead and bajaed like this.
  6. Old Zorki II

    Old Zorki II Storm Watcher

    Location:
    near Tampa, FL
    For many years I do not have tone control in my system (some equalization in surround processing does not count ).
    I often feel some records need some bass boost or slight roll off highs, but I am afraid to put equalizer in my stereo.
    I will probably be immediately stripped from my audiophile ranks and relegated to commoners.
     
    russk likes this.
  7. rp600m

    rp600m Well-Known Member

    Location:
    oxford,ga
    Overall the loudness button and tone controls just give me a more full and richer sound. I use the pre amp out section of my Denon DRA35 integrated amp feed into my Prima Luna tube power amp. Speakers are the Klipsch RP600m bookshelf and small HSU 10"sub .

    Digital Signal Processing is another useful tool if your system has no tone controls.
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  8. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Man I miss DAK.
    THOSE WERE FUN DAY'S!!!!!
    Beave
     
  9. Dellarigg

    Dellarigg Forum Resident

    I've spent months and months this year torturously weaning myself off them, I'm not weaning myself back on.
     
    mark_j likes this.
  10. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    Ya, like that's a rabbit hole I really want to head down...
     
    The Beave likes this.
  11. CCrider92

    CCrider92 Senior Member

    Location:
    Cape Cod, MA
    I've always utilized bass and treble. Would not want to be without them. Is it a constant adjustment? No, but when I feel/hear that I need get in tune with what might sound better to me I do tinker with them.
     
    The Beave likes this.
  12. russk

    russk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    Welcome. We have a better time down here.
     
  13. Old Zorki II

    Old Zorki II Storm Watcher

    Location:
    near Tampa, FL
    Almost there, thinking hard about SS-X
    Another quasi equalization will be done by choosing different curves with my soon to be shipped Goldnote PH-10
     
    bajaed likes this.
  14. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"


    Some folks enjoy twiddling knobs and listening to their tone circuits instead of listening to the recordings.
    That is fine with me.
    I have already listened to tone circuits before.
    I prefer to listen to the actual recording.
    On MY set the actual recording sounds AMAZING 99.999% of the time.
    But I can understand if your set doesn't sound like that.
    If you like there are really cool tone circuits out there that you can buy and then you can send test tones through them to play the "tone circuits" over and over.
    I bet a really "juicy" bass boost makes some folks cream their jeans.
    That seems to agree with your preference.
    I don't get it.
    Years ago I was playing CSN&Y on my set and had tone controls boosting here and there.
    The recording engineer who had originally recorded that session (Tom Irby who built studios in Nashville under the name of Valley People and "Studio Supply") was sitting there with me and he jumped up and almost hit me.
    "If I wanted all those tones BOOSTED I would have BOOSTED them in the studio" he yelled at me.
    "You are listening to something---but it is NOT what I recorded."
    I got the message and have learned how to remove "mud" from my sound since then.
    And adding tones is simply adding "mud" at this point.
    But hey, if YOU like it that is all that matters.
    Look, I'm not trying to annoy anybody.
    I totally get it that some sets out there are "off" and NEED tone boosting to work properly.
    I used to own that kind of set.
    But this is a professional mastering site and we are supposed to talk about "professional standards" and all that other BS.
    And tone controls are for AMATEURS.
    They are NICE, but don't fit in a professional setting.
    That is all I'm saying (in my feisty, entertaining manner--I hope).
    Good luck to you.
     
  15. fogalu

    fogalu There is only one Beethoven

    Location:
    Killarney, Ireland
    It's actually quite easy. An instruction book arrived with my equalizer.
     
  16. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    :laugh:
     
  17. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    I feel lucky when I get music that was mastered well enough to not feel that it needs something that a tone control can rectify,
    or at least make more satisfying. That's what enjoying music is all about (imo). I don't normally have to use a tone control,
    but I'm not going to sit there feeling compromised by sub-par sound, just to spite myself. Do people actually have systems
    that make a bad mastering sound "AMAZING"? :unhunh:
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
    The Beave likes this.
  18. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    They think they do:nyah:. Or don't, but just endure it (they worship the god engineer):shrug:
     
    fogalu and The Beave like this.
  19. Mike-48

    Mike-48 A shadow of my former self

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Once I have paid for the recording, I'll play it back just the way I like it, thank you.

    Funny, most of the recording and mastering engineers I know about use them . . . but in a professional setting they are called "equalizers." I'm told by one mastering engineers that he often will do a DAC to use a favorite analog "equalizer," then do the ADC back for the rest of the processing.

    So as an amateur, if I call them "equalizers," will that be better?

    P.S. The ones I have used lately don't add any mud.
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  20. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"

    YES.
    I find 99.9999999999999999 per cent of recordings on MY set sound AMAZING.
    I am a professional and studied BOTH high end sales AND studio construction.
    You guys that have problems are DOING IT WRONG.
    Sorry.
    But somebody HAS to tell you the truth.
    I can hear when the song has been mastered poorly.
    And I then state that it sucks.
    And when it sounds great I celebrate it.
    MOST recordings are beautiful.
    I find the exception to that is when some stupid child takes a masterpiece like George Martin's Beatles---and ruins it.
    It will still sound GREAT but I can hear that an idiot was given the keys to the car and he promptly drove it into the ditch...
    On MY set I just shake my head and wonder what the heck is wrong with our hobby that we ALLOW idiots to ruin recordings.
    On YOUR set you turn down the bass.
    I'm in it for a different reason than you are.
    I love to hear MUSIC.
    And well recorded music is mostly what I listen to.
    I get ticked off rarely.
    Mostly on commercial over re-issued pieces of dreck pitched to children that don't realize how great it sounded in the first mastering.
    But that's what happens when you have a great set.
    MOST music is FINE.
    But some makes me angry how poorly it is re-mastered.
    It still sounds GREAT but I can tell that it is WRONG.
    The original fresh recording may not be "strong" or "loud"
    but it probably had a lot more "life in it.
    And I for one am NOT going to turn up or down the BASS to try to "fix" a screwed up recording.
    So few are ruined that I long ago decided to build for "accuracy" and let the chips fall where they may.
    I once asked the lead chair of the Boston Symphony if he had favorite "bands" that he listened to.
    "Every professional musician at my end of the industry is not even ALLOWED to come on stage unless he or she can play the part ten times without a flaw," he told me.
    "I really don't get what you're asking."
    In other words it WASN'T BROKEN and it DIDN'T NEED FIXING.
    That is the level of discipline of the professional side of our industry.
    Home audio is another world entirely.
    YOU on the other hand want to "fix" everything.
    I only get involved in "fixing" stuff if they PAY me.
    It comes with being a professional, I guess.
    My two cents.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  21. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL



    So kind of you. We got it. Your rig is better than ours. We bow our heads and avert our gazes in respect:unhunh:

    [​IMG]

    The host is a mastering pro, but the site is all things audio-related and general interest. :sigh:
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
    Doctor Fine and fogalu like this.
  22. Bill Larson

    Bill Larson Forum Resident

    When a pop record from the ‘60s is a good 10 dB+ low below say, 80 hz (a fairly frequent occurrence), it’s much easier to push the loudness button than to buy another mastering. Otherwise it sounds like it’s being played on a child’s record player.

    Using the loudness button may not give you a perfect linear result, but if it sounds two-thirds closer to a normal tonal balance, that’s because it is.

    Just try playing the Byrds mono singles collection on vinyl without tone controls/loudness button. I’ll wait.
     
    fogalu likes this.
  23. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    I'm sure they sound 99.99% fine on all four of Dr Fine's rigs:laugh:. Us mere mortals have to resort to muddying things up with our pedestrian tone controls and equalizers, in our living rooms, with DIYed room treatments, if we're lucky to have them:sigh:
     
    fogalu, Eigenvector and Bill Larson like this.
  24. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    Occupation:
    Record studio designer/high end retail
    Musical Favorites and Preferences:
    I like so many different genres it would be pointless to list them all. I am moved by great singers, great composers and crotch rock too. Used to play a bit myself.
    Turntable:
    Technics SL1210 M5G, modified arm and wiring, suspended plinth, K&K transformers: Pioneer PLX1000 in office with same Denon MC setup
    Cartridge:
    Denon DL-103Rs some mono, some with Line Contact stylus upgrades, Ortofon Super OM 30
    Tuner:
    McIntosh MR71
    Digital Front End:
    Bryston BDA1, Lucid 24/96, Topping D50, Benchmark DAC-1
    CD Recorder:
    Tascam CD-RW900SL
    Pre Amplifier:
    Bryston BP-25, Jolida JD9 with Mullards for phono pre.
    Amplification:
    Pair of Parasound A21; four QSC RMX 2450: six powered subs by M&K, Velodyne and SVS: Rogue Cronus Magnum II. Theater has Onkyo 9 channel with powered 15 inch dual subs and DefTech full rangers.
    Headphone System:
    Sennheiser HD 650, Koss ESP-950 electrostatics with E9 amp.
    Speaker System:
    Harbeth Monitor 30s, SVS SB12-Plus Subs (two), Velodyne CHT-15 subs (two) , Townshend Super Tweeters; Spendor S3/5s and M&K subs; JBL 410s with 15" commercial subs. Dual 15 inch subs and DefTech Monitor 400s in theater room.
    Speaker Cables:
    Mogami/Canare 12 guage
    Interconnects:
    George L. Mogami. Canare. Bluejean.
    System Rack:
    Salamander Synergy double rack in main room, custom wall racks in mix room.
    Music Storage System:
    Walls of Vinyl Record Racks, three Sony 400CD Megachangers
    Other Accessories:
    VPI HW 16.5, Sonex , test records/CD, SPL meter. protractors, loupes, Volcano vaporizer.
    Room Size:
    Vaulted 20X30; Control room 10X10; recording room 20X35.
    Additional Comments:
    Headphones; Nearfields and Farfields.
    Plus you can dance to a couple thousand watts in the rehearsal area.
    Each tells you what is on the recording.
    The farfield room is King as it has best soundstage for hearing the "big picture."
    All four setups are flat enough to sound amazingly similar.
    All that changes big time is the perspective.
    Mom was concert pianist.
    Had a Steinway and learned music at age 5.
    Switched to guitar at 8.
    Began playing professionally at age 12.
    Became proficient on drums, bass, bought a Hammond at age 16.
    Opened for Three Dog Night, The Mothers, Steppenwolf, Blood Sweat & Tears and more.
    Met Hendrix while he was sideman for Wilson Pickett. We talked gear and I pointed out to him he should move to Greenwich Village, get discovered and be the next Chuck Berry. This actually happened.
    Met Michael Lang when he had a tiny "head shop" in Coconut Grove near my house and I told Michael all about Woodstock, NY where I had a summer home. He said he would look into it.
    Personal friends with various songwriters and artists.
    Built recording studios for rich and famous people you have heard of.
    Sold price no object audio in Manhattan.

    Forgot to add ¨Humbleness is my main virtue¨:D
     
    chromium, royzak2000 and fogalu like this.
  25. dennem

    dennem Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Music I love is mostly what I listen to.
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine