Martin Scorsese Compares Marvel Superhero Films to "Theme Park Rides"

That's not at all what he said, though. Here's the quote again:

"Honestly, the closest I can think of them, as well made as they are, with actors doing the best they can under the circumstances, is theme parks. It isn’t the cinema of human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being.”

Complete dismissal of comic book movies as anything other than thrill rides. No differentiation between the crap and the cream. No indication that he believes any of the movies boast worth beyond 2 hours of empty-headed fun...

 

I think there is something more to it than that, and probably my views are impacted by being a parent. I'm a sucker for a story like Ant Man, where the protagonist is motivated almost purely by his love for his kid, and to me the sci fi elements of these films work better than much of the praised sci fi classics that leave me cold.

Endgame starts off with Hawkeye ("outed" as the family man in earlier films) losing his entire family in the opening seconds. I don't think mindless eye candy films are often set up like that. I made a similar point earlier about the way Guardians is set up with young Peter being unable to connect with his mom as she died of cancer. The emotion written into each of these films is not done lightly or sophomorically and it cleverly gets the audience on the same page at the outset. Or maybe some of this hits closer to home for those of us who are parents.

 

I have no kids, but I've lost both parents and the opening of Guardians of the Galaxy was a gut punch - and frankly more of a gut punch than any Scorsese film I've seen. He makes films that are amazing looking, and impressive, but virtually none of which have much of an emotional impact. Here's his full length films, without the shorts, documentaries and contributions to anthologies.

1. 2013 The Wolf of Wall Street
   
2. 2011 Hugo
   
3. 2010 Shutter Island
   
4. 2006 The Departed
   
5. 2004 The Aviator
   
6. 2002 Gangs of New York
7. 1999 Bringing Out the Dead
   
8. 1997 Kundun
   
9. 1995 Casino
   
10. 1993 The Age of Innocence
    
11. 1991 Cape Fear
    
12. 1990 Goodfellas
    
13. 1988 The Last Temptation of Christ
    
14. 1986 The Color of Money
    
15. 1985 After Hours
    
16. 1982 The King of Comedy
    
17. 1980 Raging Bull
    
18. 1977 New York, New York
    
19. 1976 Taxi Driver
    
20. 1974 Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore
    
21. 1973 Mean Streets
    
22. 1972 Boxcar Bertha
    
23. 1967 Who's That Knocking at My Door

None of these had an emotional arc to speak of. Maybe #20, which is one of his only films with a female protagonist. He makes films about men, and mainly men with no capacity for self-reflection.

No, if I'm looking to be lectured by a filmmaker about modern films being empty spectacle, Scorsese is the last one I'd ask.

 

I'll give you Endgame. But that was very much an outlier, and the culmination of a 19-movie story arc. However, even with Endgame, it's best you don't think too critically about the plot, or else a lot of the movie stops making sense. But again, this is blockbuster action- I'm not expecting Rashomon-level storytelling, I'm going to sit back and enjoy the ride for 2+ hours, and in that regard the MCU films deliver in spades. I would further contend, however, that the majority of the MCU films fit very neatly into a repeatable story template. "plucky protagonist is either down on their luck or suffers a life-changing event, they meet mysterious person/group, acquire powers, meet love interest, battle baddies for the fate of the world, throw in some comic relief and fanboy pandering, lather-rinse-repeat."

These studios know what makes money, and they keep pumping out similar fare since they know it sells. Not to go too off track, but to me that's part of the appeal of Joker; it's just so different from any other comic book movie we've seen. It's character-driven, and it's almost totally bereft of CGI / highly edited/choreographed action sequences.

 

Disagree that Scorsese's films have no emotional arc. Very clear arcs in "Raging Bull" and especially "Last Temptation"...

 

And Taxi Driver, Mean Streets, The Departed...

 

And you would contend wrong. You can slap that summary on some of the origin stories but not beyond that, and it's not applicable to a lot of the origin stories either.

The various sequels extend into territory well beyond what you describe...

 

I was looking at the "emotional" side of that, and it's hard for me to find much of a real emotional arc in Travis Bickle. He's a nut who gets a bit nuttier.

Honestly don't remember the other 2 well enough to comment on their emotional arcs...

 

So, isn't that what it is?!?

It ain't high drama...

 

cool, glad to see you want to have a constructive discussion, rather than just screech that I am "wrong".

 

Huh? Travis Bickle doesn't have an emotional arc? I think you need to re-watch that movie.

 

WE GET IT.

We understand you think these movies are crap.

You clearly don't watch them, so I'm not sure how your constant criticism of them is applicable...

 

Not sure if that's sarcasm or not, but if I take it on face value... yeah, you're still wrong.

Your "one size fits all" summary doesn't fit the majority of these films, though like a horoscope, it's vague enough to claim it does.

And you could summarize lots of genres in simplistic terms that makes them all "the same" if you wanted anyway...

 

Not really--Endgame was not an outlier in the sense that each film stands on its own as well as building on the previous ones, and the personal tragedies are consistently engaging. Think of Dr. Strange losing the use of his hands. To him, at that time in his life, losing his hands was probably more traumatic than losing his family.

You're on a slippery slope regarding repetition because even the greatest filmmakers use a template. I find Nolan's films, as much as I enjoy them, even more formulaic than MCU.

As someone mentioned above, these films often champion social causes, too, picked directly from the headlines. In Captain Marvel it was the immigrant families being separated at borders. I find this borrowed-interest and frankly wish the films steered clear of them, but I mention it as further evidence they are more than what people dismissing them are saying. It's not mindless if you can watch on multiple levels.

 

If you say so. My recollection is that he goes from being somewhat unhinged to really unhinged. I guess that's an arc...

 

Do any of Scorsese's films have a character with an emotional arc like Tony Starks?

 

Because this is a thread clearly not supporting these type of films; Martin's comments. So I have the right to voice in on this subject.
On this thread, I don't think it can be considered thread crapping.
Have a nice day!

 

Not a fair comparison because Scorsese never featured the same character across multiple movies.

You'd have to compare Tony's arc in the 1st "Iron Man" to something in the Scorsese canon to make it fair...

 

That scene was like re-living the death of my sister from brain cancer in 1985, I was a mess watching this the first time and it took a few viewings for the impact to wear off.

 

This isn't a thread "clearly not supporting" the films - it's a discussion of Scorsese's comments, one that allows for "right on, Marty!" and "you're a boob, Marty!" replies.

When the "right on, Marty!" comments come from someone who never watches the movies who then repeats his uninformed criticisms over and over - both here and in other threads - then it's threadcrapping.

If you've not seen the movies, you can't say what they're like...

 

...his only film about self sacrifice*, a giant element of the MCU.

It has been a long time since I've seen Raging Bull, but I seem to recall it as a film about an angry man who becomes slightly less angry.

My point is that, despite such a long and storied career, many of his peers (Coppola, for instance) would have a much better perspective.

Edit: Okay, possibly The Age of Innocence.

 

I'm terribly sorry for your loss. My father died of lung cancer, and I wasn't there when he died. I remember that whole awful year as book-ended by my older brother telling me "Daddy has cancer" at the beginning and "Daddy died" at the end.

 

Perhaps. "Raging Bull" is more complex than you recall, though. Jake's not angry in a simple sense - he's self-loathing and self-destructive.

There's a definite arc there.

Also, "Silence" - while not a great film - is basically all about self-sacrifice...

 

An interesting comparison is to go with Hugo and put it up against a super hero. Hugo, himself a very broken person, encountered each character in the film that was broken in their own way (most notably the Georges Melies character) and in the end repaired them. And in so doing repaired himself.

 

To be fair, that's only because of that experience. Otherwise, you might disagree.

Depends on your definition of emotional impact. Have I ever been moved to tears by his films? No, but then again the same can be said about Guns & Roses, yet I still quite enjoy their music. I have a great time listening to it, I tap my foot, grin, and get into it. It's kind of like that with some of Scorsese's movies.

Some directors will outright pull at the heartstrings and not be too subtle about it. Scorsese's movies don't use the traditional tools to manufacture that type of emotion. The story is told in a matter-of-fact fashion which is either his best or worst trait as a filmmaker depending on your POV. Still, it's a style and direction one may or may not enjoy.

He directs projects he can identify with, same as any of us would. Most directors do not benefit from the same position he holds. He can choose any project he wants to flesh out. Most will accept anything to put food on the table which is understandable.

Again, in his defense, he tells the story through the characters. IMHO, one of his strengths is he is detached from the story and just lets it breathe. There's no agenda, moralizing, finger-wagging, or message in his movies... which is harder and harder to come by nowadays. If a character is introspective enough, it's shown. One instance is the end of Goodfellas when the protagonist now leads a safe but ultimately extremely boring life where he expresses missing the days depicted in the rest of the film. There's a tinge of feeling sorry for him, either out of empathy for missing his friends and previous life or for being so selfish that he still doesn't get that he was a bad guy.