Time for the Vinyl Revival to GET REAL

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by AudioAddict, Oct 5, 2019.

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  1. Schoolmaster Bones

    Schoolmaster Bones Poe's Lawyer

    Location:
    ‎The Midwest
    If that's the case, I don't think brick and mortar stores should have to eat the cost.
     
    Tullman likes this.
  2. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Hand wringing? More like outrage and justified anger. IME even RTI cannot press a record on center right now, even for an audiophile release. Pressing quality is in the toilet right now.
     
  3. classicrocker

    classicrocker Life is good!

    Location:
    Worcester, MA, USA
    Maybe I missed it as I have not read all 9 pages. Anyone have an idea how much it cost to press a vinyl album these days? Including distribution etc.

    Curious as to why they are so expensive. Are there material costs driving the retail pricing or the Labels being greedy?
     
  4. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    I get loads of records I reject and it's nothing to do with light crackling or the odd pop. That is not a worry on a high end TT and if you have an RCM. Main issues are repetitive ticks and noises caused by non fill plus some extreme dish warps. Add to that a number that got damaged covers due to Amazon 'non packaging'. Had a couple recently that had labels slapped straight on the shrinkwrap. I believe automated packing and labeling might be the issue and not tardy operatives. Certain plants commonly produce the same fault such as swooshes towards end of side. Usually you find a semi translucent patch or specking in the vinyl surface. Poor pressings are common but it can be a lottery in how many you get. Most replacements are an improvement. I'm not one to make a deal of slightly off centre as do some on this forum.
     
    Bill Why Man likes this.
  5. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    Not to mention that - as others have pointed out - it wouldn't mean much. There are some great reissues sourced digitally and some mediocre AAA ones. The vast majority of new releases aren't AAA, but many sound great (though in truth, they probably don't sound all that different from digital files played as such, unless there were compression issues on the digital files). There's just so many factors involved. AAA releases on audiophile labels are probably going to sound as good as the reissue can sound, but that's more likely due to all the other engineering and QC factors that go into making a good reissue, not the AAA aspect.

    Doing research here is a great way to find out what other people who care about sound quality think of a particular release. That's going to be better than any shorthand lettering scheme is going to be.

    And (IMO) if one isn't into geeking out on all that comes with finding favorite pressings and doing the research, then vinyl probably isn't going to be for them, anyway. It's not a plug-and-play endeavor.
     
    nosliw likes this.
  6. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    I like this. In 2019, I think this has to be considered relatively. Who would ever have thought that there would be so many vinyl options that we've had in the 2010s?

    Crazy, and much good stuff to take advantage of, as a consumer.

    That said, it would also be foolhardy to ignore all the QC issues. They're real. IMO it's best to buy from large retailers who will take returns. The mom and pops aren't making much money off new vinyl, anyway. They're making their rent on the used stuff.

    Two totally different markets.
     
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  7. nosliw

    nosliw Delivering parcels throughout Teyvat! Meow~!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Going by costs through Precision Pressing here in Canada, it would cost a minimum of $2,805 CAD for a 10"/12" record, including plating, five test pressings, full coloured labels and jacket, shrink wrap, and assembly.

    They have a quote generator at the bottom of the site here: https://www.precisionpressing.com/pricing so you can get an idea how much money is needed to manufacture these records. Adding various options add up quickly.

    Plus, you have to factor in the labels' licensing fees, wages for their employees, office lease/rental, warehouse/shipping costs, etc. Some labels break even, others are quite costly to them. Some are even lucky to sell their releases quickly. Far too many factors, really.
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  8. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    The part about defect rate being on par with the ‘70s and ‘80s is something I have heard before, and I can buy that. However, IME, you have been fortunate if you have had at least 20 in a row without defect. I would say at least 1 in 10 of my new vinyl purchases in the past couple of years have needed to go back due to one defect and/or another. Often the replacement copy is fine, but sometimes it seems the defect is part of a pressing run (this seems particularly true of non-fill and grossly off-center pressing). You must just be buying the right kind of records to have avoided this as a common problem.
     
  9. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I would suggest some people have expectations that are too low. A pop or two? The pops aren’t supposed to be there and are usually specific to the individual copy. When I pay $30 for an LP, I’m not accepting a copy that is flawed out of the package when a replacement will likely not have the same flaw.
     
    nosliw and Mmmark like this.
  10. Schoolmaster Bones

    Schoolmaster Bones Poe's Lawyer

    Location:
    ‎The Midwest
    I can't see how that would be, considering all new vinyl seems to be pressed at the same independent plants.
     
  11. Danby Delight

    Danby Delight Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston
    Yet in threads where people complain about flaws, it's almost always reissues that have the problems, not new current releases.
     
  12. Schoolmaster Bones

    Schoolmaster Bones Poe's Lawyer

    Location:
    ‎The Midwest
    $30 for a new LP? Maybe we are buying different stuff. $30 is a hard pass for me.
     
  13. Schoolmaster Bones

    Schoolmaster Bones Poe's Lawyer

    Location:
    ‎The Midwest
    Well, that's me. I rarely buy reissues, and I never buy "audiophile" reissues.

    And I'm a happy camper with my vinyl purchases, so maybe there is something to that.
     
  14. nosliw

    nosliw Delivering parcels throughout Teyvat! Meow~!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    What I noticed is that some labels would use different pressing plants (for example, Earache Records' Full-Dynamic Range LP reissues is a mix of both MPO and GZ), which I'm guessing it has to do with scheduling and costs.
     
    patient_ot and Big Blue like this.
  15. Kurt RUhlin

    Kurt RUhlin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    While I agree with most of what you said, I have to take exception to the above.

    When I was buying online from major retailers, the majority of my returns were shipping issues.

    Now that I buy almost exclusively from my local brick and mortar store my returns are limited to actual defects, which they gladly replace. These local stores create a buzz around vinyl that is good for the market. As long as this store continues to do the right thing, I’ll always go to them first. This includes special orders and online presales.

    These independent shops are what will keep the overall market alive. When I pick up a preordered album I do peruse the used section and often pick up a great find.

    I hope you will give your local shop a chance at your business.
     
    Big Blue and Bananas&blow like this.
  16. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    My most recent example of extensive non-fill was a new release, so I don’t think that’s necessarily the difference. I’m talking more about things like MoFi and Analogue Productions releases that seem to have a lower defect rate. Some of the plants are better than others, and if someone is tending to buy stuff that is pressed at the better plants, they may get 20+ in a row that are fine.
     
  17. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    $30 being on the high end, usually double LPs. Even $20, a very typical price, is too much to just accept a bad copy.
     
  18. Schoolmaster Bones

    Schoolmaster Bones Poe's Lawyer

    Location:
    ‎The Midwest
    I never check plants to decide what I buy, and my luck - at least compared to the horror stories here - has been phenomenal.
     
  19. Synthfreek

    Synthfreek I’m a ray of sunshine & bastion of positivity

    You must luck out by not getting Rainbo pressed LPs.
     
  20. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    I stop buying vinyl when it was a burden! and there was something to replace it!
     
    ssmith3046 likes this.
  21. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I don’t, either. I’m not sure how one would do that with a new release, really. If you want the new release, you are kind of stuck with whichever plant the label uses. I’m not suggesting you are selecting certain plants, I’m saying you could by chance be getting things pressed at the better plants, which may happen if there are certain labels that tend to be represented among the music you like. Or it could be just random good luck. Even the less-OK plants press a decent record sometimes.
     
  22. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I will say, while I don’t necessarily check plants before buying a new release, there are reissue labels I avoid, which is somewhat indirectly the same thing, I guess.
     
  23. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Senior Member

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    You are indeed lucky. In the past year, I've had more than 20 new vinyl purchases that were defective in some way; usually bad warps, loud and persistent surface noise that's audible through the music, and several off-center pressings (though I can usually fix those, but it's still a very common problem). I was able to get better copies of several of these when exchanging them, but there were several others where I went through two or three copies that all had the same defect before I gave up.

    I don't buy the argument that vinyl defects in the past decade are on par with the 80s. I wasn't old enough to be buying vinyl in the 70s, so I can't speak to that decade, but I bought loads of new vinyl in the 80s, and I can only think of a handful of records that had egregious defects (not including off-center pressings - those seem to be ubiquitous in any decade). In my experience, vinyl in the past several years has been much spottier.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
    vwestlife and Big Blue like this.
  24. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I love the idea of local, independent businesses standing strong and thriving in the face of Amazon. However, I do wonder if local record stores accepting returns is the exception or the rule. This forum has me under the impression most don’t take them, so you’re just stuck with a defective copy if you get one. IME, there are at least as many factory-type defects as there are shipping/warehouse-type damage, so I would anticipate still getting a fair amount of unacceptable copies buying local (which I can’t do, anyway, due to lack of such a store). If I’m going to be returning something with such regularity, and knowing the shop doesn’t get to return the bad copy to the label, I feel better eating into Amazon’s margin than I do a mom-and-pop’s. I almost think it might be better for the local stores if discerning consumers refrain from buying brand new records from them, because I can’t imagine they are making enough on the good copies to cover for the number of bad copies that should be going back.
     
  25. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Senior Member

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    I actually buy more new vinyl from Amazon than from local shops because returns are so easy if I get a defective copy. While my two main local shops do accept returns of defective items (for full store credit), I'm really selective about the new vinyl that I buy from them because I don't want to abuse their return policy and piss them off. And as you say, my returns aren't even a blip on Amazon's radar and they aren't going to eat into their margin.
     
    Big Blue likes this.
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