Did Syndication Prints really look this bad?

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by goodiesguy, Jun 13, 2013.

  1. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Be careful about the statement about handicapped people. Some of them have better eyes and ears than many so called "normal" people. McLover is physically challenged. My audio and visual standards are high. I like the best. And discerning enough to seek it out.
     
  2. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    No two telecines were set up or operated alike, nor in the same state of condition or maintenance either. Nor is the sources they transfer. Some operators are more meticulous than others.
     
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  3. Benjamin Edge

    Benjamin Edge Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukie, OR, US


    I am wondering if this version of Paramount Television's Blue Mountain logo - with the 1979 logo theme and no ® symbol - was chiefly used on those shows that were originally 1 hour long in their first broadcasts that had been divided for syndication?

    Example episodes:
    Laverne & Shirley, episode 5.9 - "We're in the Army, Now (Part I)"
    Mork & Mindy, episode 2.1 - "Mork in Wonderland (Part I)"
    Mork & Mindy, episode 2.10 - "Mork vs. the Necrotons (Part I)"

    Here's the logo I described above as seen on the Mork & Mindy episode I mentioned:
    Mork and Mindy Closing (1979)/ Paramount "Blue Mountain" (1979)

    But what I am not sure of is if the same visual version existed with the 1977, 1978, 1980 and 1981 jingles, as might be found on these episodes:
    Happy Days, episode 5.1 - "Hollywood (Part I)"
    Happy Days, episode 6.1 - "Westward Ho! (Part I)"
    Happy Days, episode 9.1 - "Home Movies" (Part I)"
    Laverne & Shirley, episode 4.1 - "The Festival (Part I)"
    Mork & Mindy, episode 1.1 - "Pilot (Part I)"
    Mork & Mindy, episode 3.1 - "Putting the Ork Back in Mork (Part I)"

    ~Ben
     
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  4. Benjamin Edge

    Benjamin Edge Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukie, OR, US
    I need to update myself on the history of the Star Trek season 1 opening title versions:

    Episodes 1 and 2 in order of broadcast actually had a different audio of William Shatner's narration, which was much faster than on episodes 4 and thereafter. On these first two episodes, there is no break between "These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise" and "Its five-year mission..."

    Episode 17 (or 29) was the first on which he changed his pronunciation of the third syllable in the word "civilizations" (from the short i sound in sit, to the long i sound in bite).

    ~Ben
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  5. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Doh, ain't that the truth. And it's still true today to a large degree, even though telecine has made way to film scans and all-digital color-correction from data.
     
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  6. PaulKTF

    PaulKTF Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I wanted to share this with you guys and @Vidiot especially.

    About 13 minutes and 50 seconds into this block of commercials from 1986 is one for Star Trek airing on a local station that has a "Shown In 35mm!" graphic (and hey, it does look a lot better than I've seen the old 16mm prints look via old YouTube clips).

     
  7. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Yeah, those are the Star Trek remasters we did from 35mm IP from about 1982-1984 for Paramount, along with Happy Days, Laverne & Shirley, Police Squad, and a whole bunch of other shows. As I said earlier in the thread, it was only done for reasons of cost: they figured out that one reel of 1" videotape only cost about $50, but a one-hour 16mm print cost about $300 (and the print wore out in a year or two). The videotape would go for a much longer amount of time. They also pioneered satellite syndication, basically transmitting a large package of shows between midnight and 6AM every day for several weeks, and all the station at the other end would have to do is basically hit the record button and go.

    I can recall actually hearing complaints from some fans that the new 35mm versions of Star Trek were "too sharp," because they revealed so much more of the bad makeup and cheap sets. The later 2000s remasters from camera negative are sharper still, particularly in HD.
     
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  8. James Slattery

    James Slattery Forum Resident

    Location:
    Long Island
    That was also the era of sending out pre-cut or timesped videotapes to stations which ended the chances of trading with people in markets where they didn't chop the hell of shows. Living in NY, where at best you might get only 3 minutes cut from a one hour show, you could always trade with people who lived in other cities where they would still run shows complete and didn't butcher for extra commercial time. So while shows got remastered and looked better, cut episodes were all you could get no matter where they ran. I remember there was a great PBS station, WVIA in Scranton-Wilkes Barre, PA, which instead of the usual PBS crap, they ran a lot of classic series, like The Fugitive, Combat and many others. Being PBS, they ran the shows commercial free and didn't cut but once Worldvision struck those timesped one-inch tapes, all that was available were the 46 minute shows. Even 20 years later, we deal with that as when Image licensed Combat for DVD release, they used those same timesped elements, except for the 5th and final season in color, which they paid to remaster complete.

    I also remember the big outcry from people when Star Trek was released on VHS tape and Paramount tried getting away with putting out those 46 minute copies from the remasters and people said this is ********, we want the show uncut.
     
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  9. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    My memory is that the studio always released TV shows on home video completely uncut. The cut/syndicated versions went to a completely different department, separate from home video (Paramount Worldwide Distribution), run by different people. It would be difficult -- but not impossible -- for somebody to take the TV syndication version, labeled and slated that way, and release it on home video. I know for a fact the laserdisc releases for Star Trek were uncut.
     
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  10. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    I never encountered any editing of STAR TREK episodes on VHS and I pretty much had every iteration. I rented - then bought - the rental-only tapes that Paramount licensed to Fotomat. Then I bought the full series as Paramount issued them. In fact, for some reason, my copy of "City On The Edge Of Forever" contained the full music score that included the song "Good Night Sweetheart". I've read many reports that the music substitutions were awful, but to date, have never heard them.

    The edited shows were always on television. At STAR TREK conventions up in New York, we were regaled with tales of WPIX's editing, where we in Philly were blessed to have the show on WKBS, and they ran the episodes uncut - at least through a couple of iterations before they too started to do edits for time.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. The Wanderer

    The Wanderer Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    NYC
    all about money
     
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  12. James Slattery

    James Slattery Forum Resident

    Location:
    Long Island
    I'm not a Star Trek nut, but I do recall them definitely starting the VHS releases off of the 46 minute remasters and fans hitting the roof. It was quickly rectified.

    As for it being impossible for cut shows to make it on DVD, that's what I thought too, until I watched the first DVD I ever bought, and it was cut! I looked at an episode of I Spy, with my favorite actress, Susan Oliver, and there's a one minute fight scene cut. A jarring cut at that so I pulled out my off air VHS and the scene was there. I was livid, and finally reached the head of the Peter Rodgers Organization, who had licensed the show to Image. When I reached the head of the company, he was only concerned with how I managed to get his phone number rather than the fact he released a substandard product. So much for the promise of DVD that we would finally get to see everything complete and uncut.

    As for the slates, I always laugh when shows are released in their edited, cut for syndication form, and the distributors claim they didn't know any better. As if the slate at the beginning of the tape saying TRT: 22:00 Domestic Syndication Master wasn't an indicator! But we've seen cut releases of Alf, Mama's Family, Rhoda, Mr. Ed, Father Knows Best and many others. What I found even more perplexing is that there are PD episodes of Andy Griffith which CBS released cut that are out there complete on PD releases.

    Speaking of cut shows, Shout Factory had to use the cut remasters on Police Story because the geniuses who work at Sony had 2 sets of remasters of the show, the complete version and the syndicated one, and they decided they only needed one. Guess which set they decided to degauss?
     
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  13. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    A casual friend of mine who worked at Rhino for many years told me a large part of his job was reviewing master tapes sent to the label, and the moment he realized they were substandard, he'd call the licensing company and yell at them and demand they send better materials. You have to have somebody in charge who knows the difference between good masters and bad, and they have to have the stamina to put their foot down and say, "either you get this right, or we're shutting the whole project down." If people who don't care or people with no taste are in charge, all is lost.
     
  14. James Slattery

    James Slattery Forum Resident

    Location:
    Long Island
    I guess your friend wasn't there when Rhino released My Favorite Martian around 2004 because I remember there being several timesped episodes.
     
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  15. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Rhino (and their descendent, Shout Factory) has often been very slipshod and uncaring about their video releases. I think nobody there really watches and checks this stuff. The music side of the label was always very, very demanding about master tape quality.
     
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  16. James Slattery

    James Slattery Forum Resident

    Location:
    Long Island
    The Have a Nice Day series had some disc drops.
     
  17. MarkTheShark

    MarkTheShark Senior Member

    IIRC that was the first time Rhino anthologized music from the 1970s. Not long before this, there was an article in Goldmine where one of the heads of Rhino was interviewed, and said Rhino would "never" release any compilations of 1970s hits, because they flat-out disliked 1970s music.
     
  18. Cheepnik

    Cheepnik Overfed long-haired leaping gnome

    Tons.

    Not Rhino's finest hour.
     
  19. James Slattery

    James Slattery Forum Resident

    Location:
    Long Island
    I meant to say needle drops.
     
  20. Benjamin Edge

    Benjamin Edge Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukie, OR, US
    If there is one thing about the original 1963-67 version of The Fugitive that needs to be cleared up, it is this... didn't the pilot episode ("Fear in a Desert City"), when first shown on ABC on September 17, 1963, originally have this long narrated intro by William Conrad?
    Per Wikipedia, this narration was shortened for the remainder of season 1... to me, it would make sense that only the pilot episode would have the long narrated intro, and the other episodes this first season with the shorter version. But other sources say "Smoke Screen" was the first episode in order of broadcast to have this shorter narrative (again by William Conrad), which went like this...
    Seasons two through four had this narrative, announced during the series title (once again, by William Conrad)...
    ~Ben
     
  21. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    I believe that is correct. The DVD sets' versions of the first episode have the shorter intro, which I think got shoved onto it in either reruns or syndication and it remains. This is much like the TWILIGHT ZONE first season episodes having the haze-clearing intro but with the Constant theme rather than the Herrmann theme that it originally had.
     
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  22. Benjamin Edge

    Benjamin Edge Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukie, OR, US
    I wonder how different all the Paramount Television catalog shows (i.e. Star Trek, Mission: Impossible, The Brady Bunch, The Odd Couple, Happy Days, Laverne & Shirley, Mork & Mindy, etc.) would've looked if post-production for the syndicated reruns were to be done at Compact Video Systems, Vidtronics, or Complete Post, rather than at Modern Videofilm?

    ~Ben
     
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  23. WLL

    WLL Popery Of Mopery






    ...Think it'd be better or worse:cheers::confused::righton:? And how would the two??different " upgradingss" of TREK's SFX shots have affected the result?
     
  24. varispeed

    varispeed what if?

    Location:
    Los Angeles Ca
    I have a question after reading a lot of this thread.....

    For a 1968-69 Abc show called "Judd For the Defense", is it the case that there are good-quality original film prints sitting in some mine somewhere?

    I have really bad copies of a lot of the episodes. I often wonder if the originals exist, if good transfers have ever been done etc.

    How would one even research that type of thing for such an old show?
     
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  25. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    While looking at my VHS of the DVD of MAKING M*A*S*H, I found a syndicated episode of the series that followed on that tape. OMG. the colors were awful, looking like a yellow mess on the screen. Yes. syndication prints were THAT bad.
     
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