Elvis Presley - The Albums and Singles Thread pt3 The Seventies

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, May 26, 2019.

  1. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    The point is that Elvis was consumed with plenty of other interests during the winter session work at Graceland; it wasn’t exactly a morose environment. His song selections were not noticeable deviations from the majority of his post-Comeback sessions. It isn’t as if upon hearing the album for the first time, the public thought he was a depressed, lonely, drug-addicted man on the verge of overdosing. The notion that this album was some sort of emotional statement was asserted decades after the fact by some observers looking to draw a parallel with his personal life, when in fact, Elvis frequently sang about these themes, even when he was relatively happy and content.
     
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  2. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    It's interesting reading all of these possibilities regarding the songs and the album ...
    For me it is just a case of on these songs, with his voice the way it was (which to my ears isn't bad at all) and with how he was at this time ... there is a raw honesty of emotion. I doubt that Elvis was trying to make an emotional concept album, I mean they had to bring the studio to him to even get him to record.

    The honesty in the emotion isn't necessarily connected to the lyrics as such for me, it is connected to the man singing them.
    He was in bad health, and I think he knew it, but was helpless (in his own mind at least) to do anything about it.
    He didn't want to record, but when you love music, and I believe he still did (although I know that is speculation. I'm sure he hated the industry though) you still connect with things in the music. There is a more mournful feel to some of the music, and I think, as it does, it drew that out in the performance of the lyrics, but to me, almost in spite of the lyrics.
    That isn't to say that I think earlier in his life he was false or insincere. It is more a case of .... look, as we get older (and perhaps I am wrong, but) we get this backlog of deep rooted pain. Things we've seen, things we've done, things we've heard, regrets, disillusionment, the burdens of just trying to be strong for everyone all the time, because we're kind of trained that that is our role, and over decades, that wears some of our insides out. That's why there are cranky old men (and many would say I am one of them lol) ... I think the world weariness that is a natural reflection of who Elvis was at this time, is so perfectly captured, that it makes the songs sound very authentic, even if the words aren't the whole picture of what is giving the songs that authenticity.

    I hope that makes sense.
     
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  3. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    Well, Jarvis certainly would have layered it with plenty of schmaltzy bombast during the post-production phase.
     
  4. Revelator

    Revelator Disputatious cartoon animal.

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I suppose plotting to round up and kill drug dealers qualifies as "an outside interest." Just not a healthy one, or a sign of a happy and content mind.

    And the post-Comeback sessions, especially after 1970, are noticeable for a general increase in ballads and sad-songs at the expense of up-tempo material and rockers.

    We don't have an actual gauge of what the public thought at the time, but it certainly would be interesting to collect the contemporary reviews of the album and see how many mention the prevalence of downbeat material.

    And even more frequently when he wasn't.
     
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  5. DirkM

    DirkM Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA, USA
    Exactly.

    I don't think anyone is saying "I want these recordings to have depth and meaning...there I'll argue that Elvis was emotionally invested in the music." It's the other way around. Some of us hear a consistent sense of honesty and pain in the recordings, and from that, it's not too much of a leap to consider the possibility that he's singing from personal experience. And actually, that's the argument that sells Elvis short, if anything. I'd argue that it would be more impressive if Elvis sat down and consciously calculated how to make his vocal on Danny Boy have the maximum effect on the listener (which would be your suggested scenario of him "simply interpreting songs"). But I don't think that that's what happened, and I doubt anyone else here does either.
     
  6. RSteven

    RSteven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookings, Oregon
    I think your whole post says it all quite well and really wraps it up for me. No, Elvis was not trying to make a concept album intentionally, but the nature of songs chosen and the way he sings those songs tell us a whole lot about how the man was feeling and how he was hurting. Do I believe Elvis was depressed 24/7 during this time? Certainly not, as you can hear in the outtakes that he still has a sense of humor and some joy in making music. The whole thing is rather more complicated than we all can analyze and dissect in a few posts. I love this album as it ended up helping me to discover Elvis's other best recorded work, but I have to tell you that I have played this album as much as any other single album in his catalogue. Nothing anyone else says is going to change my love for this album or its importance to me in Elvis's greater album catalogue.
     
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  7. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    We have to remember also, comedians and clowns are often (but not always) the saddest most depressed people in the world. I know I use comedy and feigned high spirits when I am in that place ... when I am singing, it is a different story all together, because I can hide in the song.
     
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  8. DirkM

    DirkM Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA, USA
    Questions about what Elvis consciously intended, or the meaning/background behind the song selection, are ultimately besides the point. Does it really matter if Elvis approached the initial JR sessions with any purpose beyond "Let me get these songs cut so RCA will leave me alone for a few months"? The final results sound like a coherent expression of naked vulnerability, something real, something emotional, and that's what matters.
     
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  9. RSteven

    RSteven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookings, Oregon
    Yes, this is exactly the point I am not getting from some of our other fine posters. I do not care whether Elvis or Jarvis was attempting to make some country-pop version of Frank Sinatra Sings for Only the Lonely masterpiece or whether Elvis was picking songs out of a top hat that Jarvis held in his hands, the fact is as you say so well in your post above, "The final results sound like a coherent expression of naked vulnerability , something real, something emotional, and that's all that matters." And this is all that should matter to Elvis fans.
     
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  10. JLGB

    JLGB Senior Member

    Location:
    D.R.
    Felton himself stated in interviews words to the effect Elvis when troubled, recorded songs that reflected his mood. One can go back to 1972 with "Burning Love" that many know the story that Elvis was in no mood to like or record, it if not for heavy coaxing by Felton and Elvis's inner group. And of course in those sessions we have what Elvis really wanted. "Always On My Mind", "Separate Ways"...
     
  11. Revelator

    Revelator Disputatious cartoon animal.

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Before we move on to Moody Blue, I wanted to finish commenting on FEPB...

    "Love Coming Down"-- I would place this among the stronger tracks on the album. Comparing it to George Jones's version is quite interesting. Jones, taking a straight country approach, sings from a more abject place, as if he inwardly knew his partner was going to refuse his plea. Elvis sings with a degree of his customary bravado, and this paradoxically works in his favor, despite the sadness of the song. It not only lends his plea vigor, but also dramatizes his regret and shame at having thrown love away. As with "Pieces of My Life," there's a keen sense of regret that he was never suited or able to voice in everyday life.

    "I'll Never Fall in Love Again" -- Elvis tries matching Tom Jones's version and falls flat on his face in an act of hubris. In "Hurt" Elvis compensated for not having Roy Hamilton's agility by directly attacking the song. But Tom Jones's approach in "I'll Never Fall" is already attack, and Elvis can't match it--during this part of the session he lacked the energy and commitment brought to "Hurt." His vocal is painfully feeble, like an old racehorse attempting a steeplechase and falling over half of the obstacles.

    To end on a positive note, here's the only live performance Elvis gave of one of FEIB's triumphs, "Danny Boy":



    It's wobblier than the original but still very moving, and shows Elvis's personal regard for the song, since it was the highlight of a mostly undistinguished concert. Such moments, when Elvis temporarily awoke from his haze of drugs, depression, and sickness, to provide a few minutes of transcendence, are precious.
     
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  12. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    And let's not forget Elvis' own inclusion of The Stamps AND Voice. These guys make you miss the Jordanaires and that is not easy to do.
     
  13. RSteven

    RSteven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookings, Oregon
    Love Coming Down is really a gem of a song to me. I am a huge George Jones fan and I consider him perhaps the greatest male country music singer ever, but his version is dull and lifeless compared to Elvis's. Gosh, my Mom and I just loved this song. She liked the hook, "A man so busy going up in the world, that he couldn't see love coming down" and I loved the string and horn arrangement by Bergen White that buoyed the song along Elvis's passionate vocal. I rank it as one of the stronger cuts on FEPB as well. I also like the comparison you made with Pieces Of My Life concerning the issue of regret that arises in both songs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
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  14. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    Wow, we must be listening to different recordings, because I think Elvis’s version is perhaps the worst song on the album.
     
  15. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Well, you are engaging in speculation here. We know he blew off the Creative Workshop session and we know that it was to consist of mostly uptempo material. But there is no evidence that there was a causal relationship between those two facts (ie, that he blew it off because he didn't want to do uptempo/upbeat material). And it seems unlikely to me. Since at that point he disliked all recording, period, it makes sense to go with the simpler explanation that he blew off the session because he didn't want to record at all, rather than because of any problems with the material. If he didn't like the material, why would he have selected/approved of it in the first place (since we're assuming Elvis took an active role in song selection in 1976/77)?

    I'm certainly not suggesting we dismiss it, in haste or otherwise. I just think it's possible to presume too much about the degree that it reflects his state of mind. Elvis was a hardcore addict for his final five or so years of life. He could be emotionally volatile, and at times seemed to suffer from depression. But he wasn't depressed all the time, nor was he hopeless, joyless, nor at the end of his rope. Based on the accounts of those present, he doesn't seem to have been morose or gloomy at the recording sessions themselves. The notion that Elvis believed his life was collapsing, felt hopeless about it, and chose songs to reflect that hopelessness, seems too much of a reach for me. That may have been a factor in his choices, but as we've noted Elvis always liked those type of songs too. I think there was as much happenstance as design in the way that record turned out.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
  16. RSteven

    RSteven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookings, Oregon
    Well, it won't be the first time our tastes are completely different on an Elvis song or album. My mother loved Elvis's performance of Love Coming Down and she used to pick the hit records out for my father's top 40 station in the 50's to play before they were hits. My father said she had a real knack for picking out hit records before they were actual hits on the radio. I actually think Love Coming Down could have been a top ten country single, if it had been released at the time.
     
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  17. DirkM

    DirkM Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA, USA
    Again, I don't think anyone is claiming that Elvis went out of his way to choose a set of songs that reflected his state of mind at the time. Heck, I don't think anyone's even claiming that Elvis took an active role in choosing the songs, except perhaps in the cases of Danny Boy and Hurt.

    As with so many Elvis records before it, the qualities of FEPB (whatever they may be) have relatively little to do with the actual songs, or the impetus behind choosing that material. It all comes down to the emotional quality of Elvis' performances, what he gets out of the songs. Nothing else really matters.
     
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  18. Matthew

    Matthew Senior Member

    Not a fan of Love Coming Down, real shaky vocal performance. Never understood why this was selected as a “Studio Highlight” for the 70s Masters back in the 90s.

    This along with Never Again are bottom of the barrel for me and I think it’s little coincidence they occur at the end of the week, along with Blue Eyes Crying In The Rain. All three suffer from weak vocals.
     
  19. RSteven

    RSteven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookings, Oregon
    I think its pretty obvious to the average fan that Elvis was feeling rather melancholy and lovelorn during the recording of FEPB. The song titles alone say a lot by themselves as I said previously; Hurt, Never Again, Love Coming Down, Bitter They Art, Harder They Fall, Solitaire and I'll Never Fall In Love Again. I myself never believe in this many coincidences, but perhaps you do. I also think that heartbreak and pathos are very evident by his vocal delivery, but if you find that FEPB does not reveal anything special about what Elvis was going through at the time, more power to you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
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  20. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Yes, I agree with this. Ultimately the affect a work has on the audience is more important than the artistic intent (or lack thereof).
     
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  21. GillyT

    GillyT Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wellies, N.Z
    Off Topic

    I'm not trying to change your mind Skatterbrane. As I said, that's your view. However the idea that addiction is a moral failing/sign of a weak character is frankly old-fashioned and that's what I was pushing back on. There's a huge body of research that has concluded that in the majority of cases, addictions are a by-product of poor mental health/inability to function properly due to stress. Most don't conform to the recreational drug-use stereotype.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
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  22. Revelator

    Revelator Disputatious cartoon animal.

    Location:
    San Francisco
    As you say, Elvis was not into recording at this period. So it is significant that when he did record, a clear majority of the material was downbeat, a good chunk of it was selected by himself, and when given a chance to record an uptempo song at the sessions he blew it off, just as he blew off the chance to record six songs of mostly uptempo material. That said, we don't know if Elvis had heard the demos for the aborted session and knew the material was mostly up-tempo, or if he had merely signed off on another session to get Felton and RCA off his back and then reneged. And of course we don't know if he would have actually recorded all those songs, or if he'd have veered off course the way he did at Graceland and again gravitated toward more down-tempo material.

    "Seemed"? I think the biographies make it clear that he was, and I find it bizarre that suddenly this period is being treated lightly. The fact that Elvis still could occasionally enjoy himself (cosplaying as a policeman, etc.) doesn't mean he wasn't depressed. That he was getting deeper into painkilling opiates shows he was not a happy man in the first place, and any review of the events of late 1975 and most of 1976 will demonstrate there wasn't a lot to be happy about regarding his love-life, friends, or career, all of which were on the downswing. We've already seen how Elvis's responses to the collapse of his marriage, his divorce, and relationship to Linda Thompson were reflected in his music, and it's hardly a stretch to think this period didn't affect the Graceland sessions.
    Elvis almost certainly didn't go into the Jungle room with the conscious intention of cutting mostly downbeat material. But that's what he ended up with, and it stretches credibility to believe mere chance explains this, rather than Elvis's instincts and inclinations during a painful time, and during a decade when ballads and sad songs had become prevalent.
     
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  23. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    Yeah, I have always viewed Love Coming Down and Never Again as the two weakest cuts from the session. And clearly Blue Eyes Crying In The Rain presents a wobbly vocal as well, but there is something about the recording that I have always enjoyed (while recognizing its deficiencies).
     
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  24. RSteven

    RSteven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookings, Oregon
    I am actually a little flabbergasted that anyone could actually challenge this very obvious and empirically proven conclusion you make so well. For years, I spent time reading various posts on these Elvis forums lamenting Elvis's depression and drug use during his final years, but now the argument seems to be turned on his head, and his penultimate studio album could not possibly be seen as a reflection of the artist revealing himself in a highly personal way, as that would somehow make the album more respectable or meaningful to many of his fans. It does seem like there is some sort of primal need among a few in the Elvis community that feel the strong need to keep From Elvis Presley Boulevard in its proper place; It is to be viewed as a morbid outlier in his album catalogue that would ultimately make Elvis very uncool to any prospective new fans, if it somehow miraculously actually gained any new status or exposure in the future.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  25. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    Let's be clear, Elvis had been recording downbeat material throughout the 1970's, not just during the Jungle Room sessions when he was at a relatively low-point. Yes, he selected which songs to record, but he mostly selected them from submissions -- it isn't as if he brought most of those tunes into the session (The Last Farewell, Solitaire and Danny Boy appear to have been songs he looked to record outside of his publishing channels). Most of the material was submitted by insiders and Jarvis -- and Jarvis wanted to make commercial recordings (i.e. For The Heart and Moody Blue), and during that period, recordings associated with the countrypolitan genre, which often produced thematic songs of heartache and loss. There is also no indication that he blew off recording uptempo songs during February because clearly he put the work into Moody Blue. Fire Down Below was recorded at the tail-end of the October session work, and there is no hint that Elvis blew off recording the vocal because it was uptempo (he had recorded Way Down, Pledging My Love and what was initially a fairly uptempo rendering of She Thinks I Still Care), rather he refused to continue recording period, leaving Jarvis in a precarious position.

    No one is treating Elvis' depression lightly. He was unfulfilled professionally and felt isolated emotionally. That said, let's not overstate his break-up with Linda Thompson, a relationship he was more than willing to end (during a period of revolving girlfriends). Additionally, his spiral into opiates abuse wasn't solely due to his need to nurse depression; his pharmaceutical abuse evolved into a daily habit because of what reliance on drugs can do to a person, it wasn't just because he needed it for emotional turmoil. Again, he spent most of his recording career attracted to ballads and material associated with themes of heartbreak and loss, but even during the mid-1970's, he continued to record and perform a wide variety of music, including upbeat material that he chose himself (indeed, no one should forget how enamored he was with If You Love Me and Let Me Be There).
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
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