Terminator: Dark Fate*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Deuce66, Jan 21, 2017.

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  1. Takehaniyasubiko

    Takehaniyasubiko Forum Resident

    Location:
    Void
    You know very little about this series. You clearly haven't even read the official novelization based on the original script.

    To make it short and sweet for you: Skynet is not a robot, it's not a government, and it didn't send out more Terminators because it didn't have the time and capabilities to do so because the human resistance won the war right after it was able to sent the first one (which, BTW, is very complex and takes a lot of energy to send just one).
     
  2. Deuce66

    Deuce66 Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    When the box office numbers started rolling in I knew that Dark Fate was in deep trouble and going to lose major $ however I didn't think it was going to be this bad.

    'Terminator: Dark Fate' Puts Franchise on Ice, Faces $120M-Plus Loss

    The film bombed in its U.S. debut over the weekend with $29 million.
    A storied Hollywood film franchise has been terminated — at least for the foreseeable future.

    Terminator: Dark Fate bombed in its global box office debut over the weekend, grossing just $29 million in the U.S., well behind expectations.

    Nor was its performance much better overseas, where it has earned $94.6 million to date, including a lackluster China launch of $28 million, for a global total of $123.6 million.

    Dark Fate faces losses of $120 million-plus for partners Skydance Media, Paramount Pictures and 20th Century Fox, which each put up 30 percent of the $185 million budget (Disney, which now owns the Fox film studio, will absorb the loss), sources tell The Hollywood Reporter. China's Tencent has a 10 percent stake.

    The red ink could end up at $130 million if the pic doesn't hold internationally; conversely, the losses could be closer to $110 million if it does have strong legs offshore, sources add.


    While the losses will be spread around, Dark Fate's surprisingly poor performance is a blow for David Ellison's Skydance, which has spent tens of millions trying to reboot the James Cameron-created series that first hit the big screen in 1984. It's also a blow for Paramount, which needs franchises.

    Ellison’s first attempt was 2015's Terminator Genisys, released in partnership with Warner Bros. The film, which cost more than $150 million to produce before marketing, grossed $440.6 million globally, so it wasn’t a financial disaster. It earned more than $100 million in China alone, but faltered in the U.S., where it topped out at $89.8 million.
     
  3. SizzleVonSizzleton

    SizzleVonSizzleton The Last Yeti

    This sounds odd, but I think this movie would be better served if it was more convoluted.

    Because it's so rehashed and obvious that it leaves you with too much time to nitpick things you might just roll with if your brain was working over the time travel details and such.

    In this case they tell you it's the same thing as always just with a different AI, so don't worry about it. That's super lazy but okay.

    That leaves me to enjoy the ride with Linda Hamilton and Arnold Schwarzenegger and three newcomers (to me anyway).

    I loved seeing older Sarah Connor but I was worried from the get go. Her performance in the opening scene on the bridge seemed really wooden but fortunately it got better and at least with the character you can assume she's damaged and give some allowances. But you would think she'd have more energy, move with some urgency; she's one person with normal human weapons fighting terminators from the future. But why did Arnold send her coordinates for that bridge and not for the entry point of either the new terminator in that apartment complex or the bridge where Grace came through? Again, I ask these questions more when there's nothing else to chew on.

    I love old Arnold, I thought he looked and was great in The Last Stand. But oh boy, he's learned human empathy? I think I literally threw my hands up in the theater when he said that. It was hilarious when he was telling the story about some customer wanting the wrong color of drapes. I'm fine with pretty much everything Arnold did but just say he learned to blend in and move along. And the whole thing of having a wife and raising a son, okay we get it, even the most savage 'person' can learn to nurture. Again, when the plot is such a redo I just feel like you're hitting me over the head.

    Grace. I've never seen this actress before and I ultimately think she did a good job in the role but she never grabbed me. Maybe it just wasn't that good of a role or character.

    Dani. The worst of them all. First off I had trouble getting past how much she looked like Mila Kunis. And in no way did I buy that she was a bad ass at the end. In fairness to the actress it's one film taking place in a very compacted time period. It worked in the original Terminator because that movie had genuine terror in it and if you grew up in the 80's there was that fear of the unknown with computers. You can't recreate that in 2019 and especially when the filmmakers aren't even trying to bring something new. You could believe Sarah Connor was seeing unbelievable things and Kyle Reese was there to lead her through until she fully grasped it. In Dark Fate it just feels like a young woman play acting as a teenager until it was time for a costume change.

    The new Terminator. He was fine. Not really much else to say because it must be difficult to cast that role when the previous job holders where Arnold and Robert Patrick. You never would have believed that Robert Patrick could be so memorable after Arnold but it worked. Here it just seems serviceable. He's a little better than that, but not much.

    There were times throughout the movie when I was really surprised how cheap the effects looked. The very first scene when the terminators came out of the water didn't look that good the way the water was falling off of them. The first fight scene in the car factory there were quick cuts that looked like they were right out of a video game. This would go on for the rest of the film. Maybe that's what's required for the fight scenes because they are so quick cut, probably because none of the actors (two of which are much older) have real life hand to hand fighting experience. And it must be tough to film when you've got so many people fighting, all of whom are different sizes and sexes, with different skill sets.

    But when you make all of the fighting that blurry I just want it to be over with. You don't draw me in you push me away.

    Maybe they should have made a really good $50 million dollar film and relied on plot and intrigue and acting.

    It was so obvious that Dani wasn't the mother of the next revolutionary so I don't understand why that scene on top of the train took place. It only served to make Sarah Connor look bad. She might have "only" been the mother of John Connor, but she birthed him and taught him everything he knew so she was every bit as significant as he was. So her attitude was bizarre and out of character no matter how damaged she is. And then the "reveal" scene in the plane was laughable, like they were standing around in a sharing circle learning it altogether. You know, that terminator has proven to be pretty plucky, might want to stop wasting time. A moment to slow down and talk would have been welcome in this movie, but probably not while you're making your escape from a terminator and most of the US military.

    I never expected this movie to be great or ground breaking. But when you dangle James Cameron, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Linda Hamilton and TERMINATOR in front of me you've gotta bring something to the table. This just isn't enough. When you remember the stunning visuals of T2 and you imagine how much they're going to up their game in 2019 you're left disappointed. Or at least I was.
     
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  4. kreen

    kreen Forum Resident

    Action movies have always been testosterone-driven and male-focused, and all the best and most successful examples of the genre understand this. It doesn't mean women can't watch and enjoy them, or that they don't have important female characters. It just means that they're made from the perspective of what men want. Remove this basic element and you have the worst of both worlds : a less effective action movie for its primary male audience, and a movie that, being all about action, won't be of much interest anyway to the female crowd. Hollywood is shooting itself in the foot (and disappointing its audience) by its current focus on silly "wokeness".

    In the new movie, the skinny teenage girl is supposed to become the leader of the resistance. But in a world where the social order is gone, and where it's everybody for themselves again, the truth is physical strength would prevail, and whoever would become the leader in such a world would be whoever is stronger. So the skinny little girl wouldn't be the one who rises to the top in such a scenario. Neither would it be me -- a dweebish, four-eyed 40-year-old music nerd. But they didn't cast a guy like me in the role.

    And the Grace character is idiotic also, from this perspective. If they're going to physically enhance anyone, it would be someone who's already stronger than others. They'd pick a big muscular guy.

    The same film with memorable male actors in memorable male roles -- basically like in the first two Terminator movies -- would have had a bigger shot at making money.
     
  5. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Guess Arnie’s next move will be to take a bigger role /paycheck for his involvement in The Predator series.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  6. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
  7. Matthew

    Matthew Senior Member

    C'mon, who doesn't want to see "Better Call Carl"?
     
  8. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    I’m pleased it got made,enjoyed it.

    Reason for his lack of box office failure, original actors to old for a younger audience?
     
  9. twicks

    twicks Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    That delightful saying "Get woke, go broke" seems to apply here.
     
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  10. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Grace ..half human,was no match for a Terminator.
     
  11. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    I would be interested in seeing a survey for the demographics that saw this. I will add that the reason I didn't see it is because I was of that age where I really enjoyed T2 when it came out, and began to love the franchise after seeing the first one. Everything since that has been just fooling me over and over again, so this time I said it was enough and never bothered. The first trailer that was released had around 50% downvotes on Youtube, never a good sign.
     
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  12. Matthew

    Matthew Senior Member

    I don't think so. The trailers weren't exactly great and the story is too much of a retread.

    How many times can you re-tell the "machine sent back in time to kill someone to change the future" thing and get away with it?

    That plus a bloated budget. I think something crafted more in the vein of a Logan style movie would have resonated more.
     
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  13. Matthew

    Matthew Senior Member

    I think it's worth a trip to the movies to check out. Light years better than the awful Genisys.
     
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  14. DreadPikathulhu

    DreadPikathulhu Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    The franchise needs to grow and adapt to the modern audience to continue to be relevant and jettisoning John Conner and probably Arnold were good steps in that direction. Other than some dodgy SFX where it was an obvious blue screen, I enjoyed it for what it was.
     
  15. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    This.

    Also, the age of the primary (promoted) cast made this look like Terminator: Geritol. Which isn't going to fill seats.

    Instead of (yet another) retread, they needed to come up with a plot that seemed at least a little more original. This one never looked "bad" to me, but it certainly felt over-familiar.
     
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  16. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    I'll wait to Redbox it.
     
  17. kreen

    kreen Forum Resident

    Having Arnold and Linda Hamilton back was the hook of the movie; I don't think not having them would have made the movie more commercially sound. And the other, newer actors, are boring and bland. It used to be that when one generation of action stars retired, a new one came along. You had John Wayne, then Clint Eastwood, then Sly and Arnold, then Keanu Reeves… But now, it's stopped because Hollywood keeps pushing its feminist agenda on action movies, so we get 5 feet 4, 80-pound skinny girls where we should have this generation's Schwarzenegger instead. The reason I deplore this is it means no more quality action films that are as good as during the genre's heyday. I can think of only two exceptions in recent years : the Dredd movie (not the Stallone one), and Fury Road.
     
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  18. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Captain Marvel ($1.1 billion in box office) and Wonder Woman ($822 million in box office) kinda trash that argument, tho.

    I think T:DF had severe trailer issues. The female lead is getting a mostly great reaction, but the trailer didn't really build her up or generate much interest. It probably didn't help that she's virtually an unknown. I suspect the film would be doing better if they'd shaved a few mil off the SFX budget and hired a name for the role.
     
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  19. SBurke

    SBurke Nostalgia Junkie

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I've not read the official novelization based on the original script. If you have, you have my pity regarding your choice of reading material. At any rate, if you don't realize that the rest of what you cited is just as much an attempt to fill a potential plot hole as whatever it is you decry in this film, I'm not sure what to tell you, except that the same logic that supposedly invalidates this film would invalidate T2.
     
  20. SBurke

    SBurke Nostalgia Junkie

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    That strikes me as exactly right. The film and its story presents a marketing (as well as a screenwriter's) dilemma: Promote who, Schwarzenegger and Linda Hamilton, or the newcomer who really ought to be the center of attention?
     
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  21. Matthew

    Matthew Senior Member

    I don't agree with this so-called "feminist agenda" rationale with this movie. Sarah Conner has been a lead character in this story since 1984, it was she after all who uttered the immortal words "you're terminated!" when finally killing the machine at the end of that movie.

    Personally I feel the "augmented human" in Dark Fate is better executed with Machenzie Davis than it was with Sam Worthington in Salvation. The effectiveness of these characters don't hinge on how big they're built, or what sex they are, it's how well they're written and how well they're executed by those playing them.

    I had no problem with Machenzie Davis as a protector, she was one of the highlights of the movie.

    The Dani character itself was the weak link, I didn't like the execution of that character and largely felt it was too derivative. She's just a John Conner replacement. If it had been a dude instead, it'd still just be a John Conner replacement. Who cares? No enough judging by the box-office.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  22. Lance Hall

    Lance Hall Senior Member

    Location:
    Fort Worth, Texas
    "I gotta go take my brain medicine so I can understand the Terminator franchise" :p

    The "Half in the Bag" crew did their usual great and hysterical review.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  23. kreen

    kreen Forum Resident

    Those are superhero movies though, they're a genre unto themselves these days.
     
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  24. bru87tr

    bru87tr 80’s rule

    Location:
    MA
    Not really, Capt Marvel and Wonder woman are known superheros with powers. Both really good movies I went to see and own the Blurays.

    3 skinny woman with no powers against Terminators ? Sure, whatever you say.
     
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  25. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Sigourney Weaver took down a whole nest of aliens with precious little help from her space marine buddies (at least until their command structure was destroyed and she pretty much took over). If they have guns and brains, they can take on anything. Sarah Connor ultimately terminated the first Terminator, as has already been noted, and she didn't even have a pistol.
     
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