Spotify Is An Enemy of Sustainable Arts

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Rosskolnikov, Mar 7, 2019.

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  1. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

  2. Hermes

    Hermes Past Master

    Location:
    Denmark
    The album died in the 90's. But we have all that we need for the rest of our lives.
     
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  3. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    The album as a unit of music is just an accident of marketing and packaging and the marketplace in the first place. Columbia and RCA were locked in a format war and Columbia came up with a technology that would allow 20 minutes a side of playing time on a 12-inch disk and they started pushing the format and they needed content to show off what was unique about this new technology, so, like, when Ellington signed to Columbia to do LPs they did new extended arrangements of well-known pieces.

    Artists making albums as a unit of music was a response to the commercial and technological conditions in the '50s and '60s. Now we have new, different technologies and commercial considerations, so artists make SoundCloud "mixtapes" or "visual albums" or they do collections of songs with lots of short pieces on them because they get more streaming plays. Just like the album era involved artists responding to technology and business considerations of that day, this era will have its own forms.

    And before the album era -- which is when much of the music I listen to was recorded or written, it wasn't even imaginable. Bach never made an album. Robert Johnson never made an album. The Soul Stirrers never made an album during their years with their great lead singer RH Harris. Duke Ellington's best work all predates his albums. None of that music suffers for being unrelated to albums.

    The album was a thing in its day just as sure are artists in Florence made great frescos depicting the lives of saints on church walls instead of maybe painting landscapes because that's what they got paid commissions to do, but artists in Florence do different things today.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  4. R. Cat Conrad

    R. Cat Conrad Almost Famous

    Location:
    D/FW Metroplex
    IOW, the only reason you lobby so hard for streaming on the Steve Hoffman boards ...which are devoted to music mastering and film/music appreciation... is to troll.

    Thank you for finally admitting this, even though it saddens me to read it. :sigh:

    Where are today’s Beatles, CCR, Rolling Stones, Doors, Queen, Fleetwood Mac, etc., etc.? That’s a good question, but it’s rhetorical. Those of us who have a broader appreciation of music haven’t given up on the eventual generational pendulum swing back to albums in spite of those who seem predisposed to write it off.

    I don’t blame those artists who surrender to a system which turns their art into product, but I applaud those who stand up against it. Music is more than hits and background noise for bored middle aged modern dudes.

    Baby Shark or Sharknado? On the Sy-Fy channel maybe kitsch reigns, but will the flavor of the weak stand the test of time compared to musicians who produced album after album of quality music with filler as interesting as their hits?

    :cheers:
    Cat
     
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  5. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Who said Ed Sheeran and Taylor Swift make superficial ephemeral music? Red is probably one of my most listened to albums of the last 25 years. That's one I definitely own on CD because I play it over and over and over again.
     
  6. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Just because you personally might not like Red or To Pimp a Butterfly or Lemonade or Teenage Dream, doesn't mean they won't stand the test of time. Is this thread about streaming or another thread about how anything but classic rock sucks?
     
  7. misteranderson

    misteranderson Forum Resident

    Location:
    englewood, nj
    The bootleg argument doesn't really fly, for lots of reasons.

    Led Zeppelin - there are some tremendous LZ gigs that are only available on audience recordings that vary from almost unlistenable to surprisingly detailed and engaging. In all cases, they have absolutely no commercial potential whatsoever. They just don't sound good enough to satisfy 98% of the fans who might be even slightly interested. Torrents/downloads are really the only way to go for such recordings.

    There are audience recordings for the two concerts that How The West Was Won was culled from: LA Forum and Long Beach 1972. I honestly haven't bothered with either of the bootlegs since the official version was released in 2003.

    Of course, not all bootlegs are dodgy recordings from the audience. There are amazing soundboards, FM broadcasts, studio recordings....and over the last 10-15 years or so, even shows recorded from the audience have gotten surprisingly good, in some cases.

    And, sure, where and when I can, I buy an official version of something I have on a bootleg. In some cases, especially with jazz, the artist is long dead, but I do it anyway!
     
  8. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    They kept it open, so I blocked who I needed to so I could look at the thread minus the insanity
     
  9. Rocky's Owner

    Rocky's Owner I Don't Rent Air

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I did. Taylor Swift is the Debbie Gibson or Tiffany of today. Has their music lasted the test of time?
     
  10. Rocky's Owner

    Rocky's Owner I Don't Rent Air

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    In my opinion, all of those albums will be swept into the dustbin of history. And I'm no big fan of classic rock, but those albums you mentioned will not have the lasting value of the classic rock albums from the 60s and 70s. You really think people will be listening to Red in 40 years? I don't.
    Maybe Red by King Crimson. Not Red by Taylor Swift.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  11. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Taylor Swift has already had a 13 year career and won two album of the year grammys and had someone record a cover of entire albums of hers and she's written top hits for others. Did they? There's really no comparison career wise or creatively.
     
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  12. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Absolutely I am sure people will be listening to Red in 40 years, yes. I won't be around, but I'll be listening to if for the next 20 or 25. This is sounding more and more like a typical SHTV rock triumphalism thread more than something that had anything to do with streaming.
     
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  13. Daven23

    Daven23 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hyde Park NY USA
    I actually love Red but sadly it’s true, since then she has released her share of superficial shallow songs.

    People might be listening to Red by Taylor Swift in 40 years but nobody will be listening to Reputation or Lover. I suspect it will be similar to those who listen to Rumours by Fleetwood Mac but besides the die hard, the general public doesn’t go much further into Fleetwood Mac’s discography
     
  14. Hokeyboy

    Hokeyboy Nudnik of Dinobots

    Debbie Gibson's career fizzled out in about 3 years. Tiffany's in half that time. Taylor Swift has been going strong for well over a decade with absolutely zero signs of stopping. Methinks your theory is invalid.
     
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  15. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    I think Lover is pretty good actually, a little samey and overly long and the two lead singles were the weakest material on the album, as was the case with Reputation. But Ive been listening to it a lot and really enjoying most of it. And her Tiny Desk appearence was great. Reputation not so much, but I think people remember the great popular music of the past. People will be listening to "Delicate" in 40 years just as sure as people are still listening to Under Pressure or Let's Dance today.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  16. Rocky's Owner

    Rocky's Owner I Don't Rent Air

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    If Debbie Gibson or Tiffany had all the knuckleheads on social media pushing her work, as Taylor Swift does today, their careers would probably have lasted as long.
     
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  17. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Senior Member

    Location:
    California
    They should call it "Hoffman Forum's law" - let any SH thread of any subject go on long enough and you will inevitably get a post about how modern pop is manufactured garbage and all that. It is as iron-clad as gravity or Modern Dad taking up 80 percent of all streaming or CD related threads
     
  18. Gaslight

    Gaslight ⎧⚍⎫⚑

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    No one's brought up the Spanish study recently.

    Totally falling down on the job on that one.
     
  19. Daven23

    Daven23 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hyde Park NY USA
    I respectfully disagree about “delicate” I find it to be forgettable and absent of any melody, unlike “under pressure”
     
  20. Daven23

    Daven23 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hyde Park NY USA
    I think Madonna would be a more apt comparison popularity wise to Taylor Swift. Some of her music is still listened to today, mostly the first few albums. I suspect we will see a similar pattern with Taylor Swift appreciation 30 years from now.
     
  21. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    It's not the best of Swift. I like Swift's songs best where she's telling a story with a beginning middle and end where something happens to the people in the story and there's a strong central image and descriptions of scene and action, like "Mine" or "All Too Well" or "White Horse" or "Clean" or "Speak Now," but "Delicate" is a total earworm to me.
     
  22. Drifter

    Drifter AAD survivor

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, CA
    :laugh:
     
  23. reddyempower

    reddyempower Forum Resident

    Location:
    columbus, oh, usa
    Yes. I love streaming, just love it, but I love my collection as well. I'm not giving up my MFSL CDs or good vinyl pressings.
    Plenty of room for both.
     
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  24. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award

    Location:
    NJ USA
    The difference between pressings of a 40 year old Jethro Tull album you cannot hear is not rationale to eschew streaming. Don't be silly.
     
  25. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award

    Location:
    NJ USA
    You need to wake up and realize that the vast majority of the population of the planet doesn't share your view at all. If they did, if they coveted music, then the industry wouldn't have been in the double-digit toilet for the majority of the past decade and need streaming to save it. The album, dead. Creative artistry, dead. What you once admired has been reduced to an all-you-can-eat $10 buffet. That's what music is worth. Ten bucks. Coffee and a bagel. If that saddens you, look in the mirror. You and your fellow artists are failing, doing a lousy job. And now you want to be paid more for it? Seems to me the new math that pays pennies on the dollar and makes you wait 30 years to make what you used to make is deserved.

    Don't shoot the messenger. The consumer voted. For a decade your industry slowly died. Now you want to bite the hand that saved you.

    No! It's not! That's what you need to wake up and realize. Especially ridiculous for you to deny this since your entire argument is based on money money money, you want to get paid more more more from a medium that is just hits and background noise. You're living proof that that's all it is. You're not fighting for art. You're fighting for money. Money money money.

    The test of time? Elvis Presley has lost his audience. They're gone. The King Of Rock 'N Roll is Al Jolson. He's Enrico Caruso. He's the Acropolis. A relic to read about in books. No one listens to his music. This entire medium is based on disposability. New hits needed every week. New artists needed every three years. Streaming is perfect. Someone said "I don't pay for air". Yes you do. Oh, yes you do. You always have.
     
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