Martin Scorsese Compares Marvel Superhero Films to "Theme Park Rides"

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Vidiot, Oct 5, 2019.

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  1. SBurke

    SBurke Nostalgia Junkie

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    That's not really a criticism of the film though, is it? It's like saying you don't want to read a murder mystery because homicide is abhorrent. That's certainly your business, but it's a different business from assessing the movie as a flawed or deficient work of art.

    In any event, somehow I wasn't even aware of this film ("Silence"). To whoever mentioned it, I'm grateful -- it looks fascinating!
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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  2. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    I thought "Silence" was a snoozer. "Last Temptation" was a fine film that explored faith but this one lacks that flick's depth and nuance:

    Silence [Blu-Ray] (2016)
     
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  3. SBurke

    SBurke Nostalgia Junkie

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Interesting, I'll check it out. I had two very different reactions to "Last Temptation." When I first saw it, not quite 30 years ago, on VHS, I thought it was enthralling; part of the appeal may have been the fact that I was coming to it with an awareness of how controversial it was on its release with the church. And I was, I think, 16 at the time. I went back to it not too long ago, I can't remember when, but when I did, I shut it off; it struck me as almost inept, with Harvey Keitel and Willem Dafoe sounding like bumbling anachronisms. I probably should watch it again. I love Nikos Kazantzakis, and the concept of the novel I think is provocative, in a quite valid, humanizing way.

    The historical phenomenon of Jesuit missionaries in Asia (actually, I have no idea whether the protagonists of "Silence" are Jesuits or not) is fascinating -- the life of Francis Xavier, in particular, the subject of a recent concert I went to see by Jordi Savall and his early-music group which also featured a number of Indian and Japanese performers (review here for anyone who's interested: Review: The White Light Festival Opens With a Journey to the East ) was enthralling.
     
  4. This Heat

    This Heat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Tetro cost about 5 million. Again 30 to 50 million dollar films don't get made anymore like they did in the past. So there is very little chance The Irishman gets made at that price. And so Netflix which bleeds money took a chance.

    For whatever reason Scorsese's comments offended you. That is fine but there is no reason to distort his intent or to grossly confuse how movies are made and budgeted in 2019. Talk to a line producer about budgets on a major studio film. Most major studios have creative accounting about their budgets. Most Marvel movies cost in the 300 million range, nearly twice as much as The Irishman

    Like in the early to mid 60s Hollywood focuses on tent-pole movies
     
  5. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    man, this threads got legs, huh?

    comic book movie fans hold grudges like Mussolini.
     
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  6. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia

    See people!

    [​IMG]
     
  7. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    well don't leave us in suspense.....(I got 5 bucks on lighthouse)
     
  8. Graham

    Graham Senior Member

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    It’s a good thing there isn’t a forum drinking game where we have to down a drink each time you mention your wife and her viewing habits. We’d all be drunk 24/7.
     
  9. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    Yeah, I don't think it's Scorsese that defensive and close-minded. And the franchise defenders wouldn't care if it wasn't someone they all know in their hearts produced genuine classics featuring actual human beings, or in Scorsese's case, inhuman and damaged human beings.

    I've enjoyed some MCU films, been bored by a couple, and I always get a kick out of seeing the expense and expertise expended on re-creating those thirty-cent pulps I read as a young teenager. But I don't get why anyone would take offense at the restaurant chef calling out the junk food at the fast food chains serving millions.

    The hostility to anyone suggesting that the MCU (or STAR WARS) may not be the highest calling of cinema reeks of the worst imagined victimhood, but that's where we're at these days. It's not enough that McDonalds earns billions, the Michelin Guide has to give it three stars, or else it's elitist and snobby and they probably didn't even eat at every McDonalds.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  10. I am shocked, SHOCKED at comic book fans acting like wounded adolescents.
     
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  11. Gramps Tom

    Gramps Tom Forum Resident

    I own probably 500+ dvd/bluray films, tv series', documentaries, and concerts. Over the weekend, I screened Steve Martin's Father of the Bride, Enemy at the Gates, and Coming to America back-to-back-to back. WC Fields films rest comfortably right next to Private Ryan, The Departed, Lincoln, and You've Got Mail on my shelf. Seinfeld next to Mad Men, next to Band of Brothers, Barney Miller, WKRP, all the Chicago Fire/Med/PD sets...

    My point: Nothing has to be either/or....All of us can enjoy any type of film, and screen whatever we're in the mood for. No different than music or books.
     
  12. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    Sadly, I didn't get to see any film in the theater yesterday. Instead I re-watched V for Vendetta, as it was November 5th.
     
  13. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    She's an extraordinary person.
     
  14. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    We're going in circles here, I mentioned already that maybe he cast those actors for people that want to see a film with them again. In the past Robert De Niro has said it is tough getting work as an old actor, this might be the last chance we get for something like this (collective we for those of us that want to see this kind of film). A version with younger actors can be made at any time.

    As for Francis Ford Copolla he might have no other option than to make lower budget films like that. He hasn't exactly had any hits since Rainmaker (not even sure if this qualifies, I saw it because it was a Grisham novel). Note I am personally not making a swipe at his artistic merit, just that Hollywood themselves might be reluctant to give him the major backing that current hot/big name directors get. Scorsese on the other hand had that huge blockbuster (commercially and critically) in Wolf of Wall Street much more recently.
     
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  15. This Heat

    This Heat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL

    Robert De Niro is the one who initiated the project about 15 years ago. He was always going to star in it. It took at least ten years of development and several years more to secure financing. This, by the way, is normal for movies that aren't superhero films. The project did pick up steam after the success of Wolf of Wall Street.

    The Irishman is a 3.5 hour historical epic with numerous scenes and locations. It's totally absurd to claim the film could be made for 30 million. There was at least one offer for financing at about 100 million which would have involved Paramount and a foreign company (forget which one). That deal didn't work for numerous reasons and Netflix was the only one willing to finance the film.

    All of this information is readily available in trades and on the internet.
     
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  16. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    As an aside, is there anything Netflix and Amazon aren't approving these days?
     
  17. Spencer R

    Spencer R Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oxford, MS
    Martin Scorsese thinks everything was better in his day – he's wrong

    in the piece, Scorsese claims the movie industry has “steadily eliminated risk” and instead focuses on “perfect products manufactured for immediate consumption”. Again, he’s right about the industry, but not about Marvel.

    It is clearly beyond Scorsese’s comfortable mindset to understand how pumping hundred
    s of millions of pounds into a superhero movie with a black lead (Black Panther) might constitute a risk. Nor can he imagine any potential anxiety caused by giving $152m to the studio’s first female-fronted picture (Captain Marvel). Scorsese doesn’t recognise comic book fans’ ingrained apathy towards any story not centred around a white man.

    It’s perhaps to be expected from a baby boomer whose films often fail to feature any lines for women. According to a recent study, only 29 per cent of Scorsese’s movies pass the Bechdel Test, whereby two women must talk to each other about something other than a bloke. In The Irishman, out on Friday (8 November), Anna Paquin has a grand total of one line. In a three-and-a-half-hour film. When questioned about this at a recent press conference, the director brushed off the question and called it “a waste of time”. Diversity, it seems, is a problem for lesser filmmakers.

    ...

    To clarify, it’s completely fine for Scorsese not to like Marvel movies. As he says: “it’s a matter of personal taste”. But ‘I don’t like something because it’s different to how it was in my day’ is a classic Grandad point of view. One ill-befitting a man of his talents.

    Ultimately, Scorsese’s backwards-looking mindset has led him to make a 210-minute movie about septuagenarian gangsters, funded by a streaming service he then had the gall to criticise pre-release
    .
     
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  18. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
     
  19. Graham

    Graham Senior Member

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    From that fine bastion of film criticism, the NME...

    “...it is to be expected from a baby boomer whose films often fail to feature any lines for women...” I can’t think of any Scorsese film that doesn't feature dialogue from a female character (except maybe Silence, which I haven’t seen).

    He criticises Scorsese for being a boomer, for making films featuring white characters, and implies he’s sexist and racist by virtue of his age. FFS! He just doesn’t like Marvel films.

    It’s just click-bait bulls**t that’s very late to the party.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
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  20. Spencer R

    Spencer R Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oxford, MS
    The article doesn’t state that Scorsese films feature no dialogue from female characters, it stares that Scorsese films more often than not feature no meaningful dialogue from female characters. From The Godfather onward, the mob film genre largely treats women as arm candy, sex objects, or trophies for men to fight over. As with Tarantino’s Once Upon A Time In Hollywood, I think it’s fair to say that Scorsese is nostalgic for a cinema, and a for larger world, that revolved around and was made by and for men.
     
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  21. Graham

    Graham Senior Member

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    It does state that. Very clearly. “... a baby boomer whose films often fail to feature any lines for women...”
     
  22. This Heat

    This Heat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL

    Very true that Scorsese's films are limited by their macho world-views. However, his production company has done a lot to champion female directors. Of course, since there are fewer and fewer mid-budget movies being made, Hollywood remains an abysmal place for female directors.
     
  23. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    As they say, you have to write what you know. I don't think that male directors have any requirement to write large, meaningful parts for women, and I don't think that the absence of many can be the basis to impute a chauvinistic world-view.

    Anyway, one of Scorsese's best-known films has an entire POV from a woman (Karen Hill) so it's not as if he never did any.
     
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  24. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Ah yes, the woman who he cheated on and treated like garbage from their very first date, who had basically no say in her own existence.

    And let's not forget the token black from Goodfellas either, while we're at it. Samuel Jackson as Stacks, who couldn't even hide the getaway vehicle properly and was promptly whacked.

    I appreciate Scorsese films as much as anyone, but he's in a glass house and shouldn't be throwing stones.
     
  25. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    well it was a real story.... based on a real guy, cant do much about than cut hom out of the story....then jacksons out of a job. and what about Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore - Ellen Burnstyn WAS the movie. Boxcar Be....ok not that one. Age of Innocence. Everyone acts like Martys career is three gangster movies.


    good flick!
     
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