Prince: 1999 Super Deluxe box 5CD/1DVD or 10LP/1DVD [11/29/19]

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by ad180, Aug 3, 2019.

  1. DownInAHole

    DownInAHole Forum Resident

    Some folks are complaining about the the second disc (third/fourth LPs). A common complaint is "I would have preferred another disc of outtakes" but I think that is the wrong way to look at it. I don't think this project started out as being five discs (excluding the DVD) and then there was a need to fill up those five discs. I think the amount of material they had to work with dictated the size of the set. It could have been more or less discs depending on what they had to work with. The point I am clumsily trying to make is I don't think the edits took the place of more outtakes and, if anything, including the b-sides and extended version on a separate disc may have made room for more outtakes. The b-sides and extended version were rightfully included, if the weren't on a separate disc they likely would have been on one of the outtakes discs which may have meant less room for unreleased songs.

    I won't listen to them often but I am glad the edits/promo versions were included, it make the set more complete.
     
  2. Detroit Rock Citizen

    Detroit Rock Citizen RetroDawg Digital

    With Prince the B-sides, and the 12 inch remixes, are necessary. The singles probably aren't because every Prince greatest hits / best of has been based on them. There has been one disc dedicated to B-sides and one to 12-inch remixes that have been tied in with other more conventional releases, but they've never been offered alone.
     
  3. Joker to the thief

    Joker to the thief Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    It looks like they're establishing a pattern with this, album, remixes/b-sides, vault tracks, live show. It's a pattern that makes sense for Prince (deep vault, great live performer). As you say the 12 inches and remixes for Prince are absolutely necessary (in his imperial 80s phase at any rate) and often radically different from the album versions. Same goes for the b-sides (which can often be better than the a-sides), so if this is what we can expect as a template for other albums, then this approach is going to become vital (as it was on the Purple Rain deluxe release - although I could have personally lived without the 7-inch edits). The problem for 1999 of course is that the tracks are long enough that they effectively are the 12-inch versions and there's not many different versions (except 7-inch edits) of the album tracks, but having a largely redundant disc is a price of entry I'm willing to pay now for when it becomes more vital on other albums - I also like that they're taking a completist all in one approach to what was released, which is great for completists that might have missed out first time round and now have it all in one place.
     
  4. englishbob

    englishbob has left the SH Forums...19/05/2023

    Location:
    Kent, England
    This morning I did a quick A/B/C test between vinyl copies of a USA 82, the 2011 reissue and the new 2019 remaster. I also have a Japanese 82, but didn't dig it out. I compared the title track 1999 and DMSR

    This new remaster then. Weaker stereo soundstage and tamed treble in comparison to the 82, and in some respects the 2011. It's as if they are remastering these 80's albums to sound like recent albums, all flat and with no excessive frequencies in any direction of the scale.

    To me, from those 2 tracks on the 2019, it's as if I'm listening to it on cassette with Dolby NR enabled.
     
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  5. englishbob

    englishbob has left the SH Forums...19/05/2023

    Location:
    Kent, England
    Vinyl is cut a bit too quiet in my opinion. Be prepared to crack it up beyond your normal listening level to get more out of it, especially the live discs.

    Not sure why this is, usually BG is the business. Obviously cranking the volume up one or two more dBs is the answer, but you do also increase the chance of more rumble and surface noise.
     
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  6. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    Totally agree.
     
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  7. Detroit Rock Citizen

    Detroit Rock Citizen RetroDawg Digital

    When I ripped the Purple Rain box I changed the running order of the 4th Disc so each song would be seperate and not immediately repeated. I did the same for 1999. It makes the material that much more listenable.
     
  8. Mr Olsen

    Mr Olsen Granddanois

    First impression of the remastered 1999 CD is good. Maybe a little darker or more full bodied but not in a bad way. I had a blast cranking up the volume, it really opened up the sound. This is a wonderful release by Warner and The Estate.
     
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  9. englishbob

    englishbob has left the SH Forums...19/05/2023

    Location:
    Kent, England
    Did a compare between the old CD of the main album ripped at 320kpbs (from I think my Japanese SHM-CD copy) against the new one from the vinyl download card, also in MP3 320kbps

    This is the original....
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Analyzed: Prince / 1999
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DR Peak RMS Duration Track
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DR13 0.00 dB -15.66 dB 6:15 01-1999
    DR11 -1.16 dB -16.00 dB 5:04 02-Little Red Corvette
    DR13 -0.68 dB -16.90 dB 4:01 03-Delirious
    DR13 0.00 dB -14.92 dB 7:22 04-Let's Pretend We're Married
    DR11 0.00 dB -12.76 dB 8:17 05-D.M.S.R.
    DR13 -0.12 dB -17.18 dB 9:28 06-Automatic
    DR13 -0.63 dB -17.74 dB 4:03 07-Something in the Water (Does Not Compute)
    DR15 0.00 dB -18.97 dB 5:08 08-Free
    DR14 0.00 dB -16.35 dB 8:19 09-Lady Cab Driver
    DR15 -1.46 dB -18.25 dB 5:59 10-All the Critics Love U in New York
    DR16 -0.27 dB -19.93 dB 6:38 11-International Lover
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Number of tracks: 11
    Official DR value: DR14
    Samplerate: 44100 Hz
    Channels: 2
    Bitrate: 320 kbps
    Codec: MP3
    ================================================================================


    This is the 2019...
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Analyzed: Prince / 1999 (Super Deluxe Edition)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DR Peak RMS Duration Track
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DR8 0.00 dB -9.87 dB 6:14 01-1999 (2019 Remaster)
    DR7 0.00 dB -9.63 dB 5:04 02-Little Red Corvette (2019 Remaster)
    DR8 0.00 dB -10.11 dB 4:00 03-Delirious (2019 Remaster)
    DR8 0.00 dB -9.69 dB 7:20 04-Let's Pretend We're Married (2019 Remaster)
    DR8 0.00 dB -8.97 dB 8:18 05-D.M.S.R. (2019 Remaster)
    DR7 0.00 dB -9.81 dB 9:26 06-Automatic (2019 Remaster)
    DR9 0.00 dB -12.21 dB 4:02 07-Something In The Water (Does Not Compute) [2019 Remaster]
    DR9 0.00 dB -12.02 dB 5:07 08-Free (2019 Remaster)
    DR10 0.00 dB -11.75 dB 8:17 09-Lady Cab Driver (2019 Remaster)
    DR11 0.00 dB -12.73 dB 5:58 10-All The Critics Love U In New York (2019 Remaster)
    DR9 0.00 dB -11.68 dB 6:38 11-International Lover (2019 Remaster)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Number of tracks: 11
    Official DR value: DR9
    Samplerate: 44100 Hz
    Channels: 2
    Bitrate: 320 kbps
    Codec: MP3
    ================================================================================

    Verdict - Out of speakers, its louder and bassier

    YMMV on headphones
     
  10. MikeManaic61

    MikeManaic61 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Good thinking! I might do that but I wouldn't how I would reorder mine.
     
  11. Cemetry Gator

    Cemetry Gator Forum Resident

    Location:
    Morristown, NJ
    I am actually a big fan of 7" edits, since it can be interesting to hear how the song was played on the radio, and for playlists, since sometimes the full version just takes too long.

    Granted, I'm confused about the mono version of 1999, but if you're going to include everything.
     
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  12. In the case of Prince, especially 80s Prince, I'd probably prefer "bassier." One of my criticisms of his hit period productions was variable sound quality and too much top end. Sounded great on a boombox or a poor car stereo but was never audiophile quality. It's a tough issue because he's so beloved and people have come to know the albums with that sound (in spite of the sound, I might say).

    So . . . not loving those DR numbers but I'm genuinely curious. I think 1999 is one of his albums most likely to be well-served with more bass. Frankly, I think Purple Rain, Controversy, and Around the World In a Day would too.

    By the time of Parade, he had this really dense sound that was softened on the edges. I liked the layers but still didn't love the sound quality. Maybe Diamonds & Pearls or Symbol were closest to having great sound, but with the use of so many other players, those started to sound a little more like "everyone else's" music and a little less "Prince-like."
     
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  13. OKNOTKO

    OKNOTKO Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Korea
    I think this 1999 remaster sounds like not remaster but new stereo mix. Reversed channel ,widen stereo seperation and modern like bass tone. I wonder what master tape used. Is this really mastered from original master tape?
     
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  14. englishbob

    englishbob has left the SH Forums...19/05/2023

    Location:
    Kent, England
    You can have more bass, but not at the expense of treble. I think that is what has happened in this remaster is that the top-end gets rounded down and becomes "middle" and then it starts to feel congested and foggy, and a bit less dynamic/width on the soundstage front.

    Today I think people are obsessed with bass, has to have more bass, especially in headphones. I find that more fatiguing than anything.

    All those albums you quoted that he produced, obviously it was his-thing to make it less bass heavy. I guess in the next remasters you can add a hell of a lot of bass to those, but I don't think its how he would have heard it.
     
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  15. Detroit Rock Citizen

    Detroit Rock Citizen RetroDawg Digital

    1999 Disc 2
    18 tracks in playlist, average track length: 4:19
    Playlist length: 1 hour 17 minutes 48 seconds
    1. Prince - 1999 [7'' Stereo Edit] (3:36)
    2. Prince - Little Red Corvette [7'' Edit] (3:08)
    3. Prince - Delirious [7" Edit] (2:38)
    4. Prince - Let's Pretend We're Married [7" Edit] (3:44)
    5. Prince - Free [Promo Only Edit] (4:35)
    6. Prince - All the Critics Love You In New York [7" Edit] (3:15)
    7. Prince - Lady Cab Driver [7'' Edit] (5:05)
    8. Prince - Automatic [7" Edit] (3:39)
    9. Prince - DMSR [Risky Business Edit] (5:05)
    10. Prince - How Come You Don't Call Me Up Anymore (3:54)
    11. Prince - Horny Toad (2:13)
    12. Prince - Irresistible Bitch (4:13)
    13. Prince - Little Red Corvette [Special Dance Remix] (8:30)
    14. Prince - Automatic [Video Version] (8:20)
    15. Prince - Let's Pretend We're Married [Video Version] (4:02)
    16. Prince - Little Red Corvette [Dance Remix Promo Only Edit] (4:33)
    17. Prince - 1999 [7'' Mono Promo Only Edit] (3:35)
    18. Prince - Let's Pretend We're Married [Mono Promo Only 7" Edit] (3:43)
    Purple Rain [Disc 3]
    15 tracks in playlist, average track length: 5:11
    Playlist length: 1 hour 17 minutes 58 seconds
    1. Prince & the Revolution - When Doves Cry (7 Single Edit) (3:48)
    2. Prince & the Revolution - Let's Go Crazy (7 Single Edit) (3:47)
    3. Prince & the Revolution - Purple Rain (7 Single Edit) (4:05)
    4. Prince & the Revolution - I Would Die 4 U (7 Single Edit) (2:58)
    5. Prince & the Revolution - Take Me With U (7 Single Edit) - Prince & The Revolution (3:43)
    6. Prince & the Revolution - 17 Days (7 B-Side Edit) (3:56)
    7. Prince & the Revolution - Erotic City (Let's Go Crazy 7 B-Side Edit) (3:56)
    8. Prince & the Revolution - God (7 B-Side) (4:02)
    9. Prince & the Revolution - Another Lonely Christmas (7 B-Side Edit) (4:53)
    10. Prince & the Revolution - Baby I'm a Star (7 B-Side Edit) (2:49)
    11. Prince & the Revolution - Let's Go Crazy (Special Dance Mix) (7:35)
    12. Prince & the Revolution - Erotic City (Make Love Not War Erotic City Come Alive) [Extended Version] (7:23)
    13. Prince & the Revolution - God (Love Theme from Purple Rain) [U.K. 12 B-Side] (7:58)
    14. Prince & the Revolution - I Would Die 4 U (Extended Version) (10:18)
    15. Prince & the Revolution - Another Lonely Christmas (Extended Version) (6:47)
     
  16. Detroit Rock Citizen

    Detroit Rock Citizen RetroDawg Digital

    Actually, now that I'm looking at it, I need to re order the first nine songs like they are on the Album.
     
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  17. MikeManaic61

    MikeManaic61 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Good on ya :righton:! I'm definitely gonna do this as well when I get the Purple Rain edition.
     
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  18. englishbob

    englishbob has left the SH Forums...19/05/2023

    Location:
    Kent, England
    Here is my 2 pence.

    This is around the 10 vinyl boxset with the DVD.

    Packaging:
    Great presentation all-round. Quality sleeves, all have poly-lined inners AND printed inner sleeves for every disc which you can optionally use (a few releases have done this, Bowie etc, and its a great way to go IMO). The booklet thing is great, the liner notes on the vault tracks took me back in time to reading that Per Nilsen book that was my bible back then. I can read those things all day. Also there is an MP3 320kbps download card, long may this continue. Only negative, the front cover of the live set is pretty terrible, both album and DVD. The bottom of the box its also too tight!

    Pressing:
    Really nice, thankfully. No issues whatsoever.

    Vinyl Cut:
    With only the MP3's on the download to compare against, I thought that all the vinyl discs where cut fairly quiet. Expect to crank it about 2 dB's above your listening position, especially on the live set. Otherwise everything is great, as you'd expect from BG.

    Disc 1+2 1999 main album
    Sorry, not really a fan of the remix. It won't be the go-to version on vinyl for me.

    Disc 3+4 Promo Mixes and B-Sides
    Apart from 4 tracks, this double album slab is completely pointless. On vinyl would have served to be a 4 track 45rpm 12" single. I'm probably never ever going to play this. I might have if those 4 unique tracks where on side 1 or something, but as I looked at the track listing I just couldn't face it. 3 versions of Lets Pretend were married, in a row.

    Disc 5-8 Vault I and II
    Brilliant, all of it. This is the real meat on the bone here. Varies a lot in quality, assumed for the most part that a lot of this was untouched. I personally loved what they did on "Originals", but here this looks like it remains untouched, warts and all.

    Disc 9-10 Live Set
    Its pretty good, but badly mixed and sounds flat. Some tracks, like 1999, when the guitar half-way through lights up the left channel, like a breeze on a hot stuffy day through a window. I'd play it again, but it sounded a lot like all those live bootlegs you could get hold of in the 90's. The vocals are very clear though on this

    DVD
    Not watched all of it, the close up shots are pretty good, the distance shots are hard to make out. Sound-wise not the greatest. I will eventually watch all of it, but it feels like a YouTube leak. I noticed in the CD+DVD un-boxing that the DVD is in a gatefold sleeve, but in the vinyl set it is single sleeve

    Value for money
    5 out of 10 - straight down the middle. I think its overpriced, on every format available. Its well manufactured and presented, but it still has "Prince tax" applied, which seems to be an ever-increasing percentage right now.

    Overall:
    When thinking about this, I looked at the MP3 tracklist and thought about what exactly I would extract out of this set and put on my car USB stick or on my Walkman. That would be the 4 b-side tracks, and the entire Vaults, and maybe in two minds about the live set.

    It goes back to what I mentioned a load of posts back, I'd prefer Vault stuff to be released like "Originals" was, and then any really good quality live sets to be released as well. I'm not keen on large expensive box-sets with a remastered album and all that.

    If I'd do it all again, I'd opt for the 5CD+DVD set and maybe wait for it to be around £30.

    There where a lot of editions released on "1999" this week, which seem to address everything and nothing. The Estate knew that if they released the remastered album with the vault tracks and those 3/4 b-sides, the box set would have been for completists only, and whilst I consider myself a fan interested in the unreleased stuff and not a mono radio edit, I don't think Prince Estate will have my best interests at heart going forward, but it will have its eye on my weakness to resist at times, and my money.
     
  19. ad180

    ad180 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    There’s always the question in the back of my mind: did this amount of low end exist on the master? If previous versions were from a cutting master, the original master very well may have sound like this. :shrug:
     
  20. See, I don't even know is it's so much "more bass" as it is a warmer midsection in the lower-mids. This is what gives it a more analog feel, which this remaster has over other versions. The bass, itself, doesn't seem to be hitting lower registers, though. It's that the lower-mids generally have an effect on the highs.

    It's all a balancing act, right?

    This very could be more of what it sounds like. It's been said for those early Grundman masterings that he would master for LP and then do a flat transfer of that for CD. This practice went all the way through SoTTs.

    The thing that we would have to know for sure, though, is if this remaster is directly from the mixed master.
     
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  21. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Really? Mileage. I think Parade is one of the great recordings of the '80s - I often use cuts from it as demo material.
     
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  22. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    The bass - especially the deep bass - did seem much more defined and prominent when I was streaming the album off Spotify last night than I recall it being from any prior master. I'm not complaining about that - I've always found the bass on his pre-Parade albums to be strangely anemic and thought they could benefit from a massive boost. Whether this is a big EQ change, the result of using the original masters, an side-effect of dynamic range compression or some combo of the above will likely remain a mystery.

    Those DR figures are bad. It didn't sound harshly compressed, but I was listening somewhat casually and at low volumes. I didn't notice any distortion, but to get to those DR values with this source material - which originally had lots of space and dynamics - you'd almost certainly end up with audible distortion, and quite a lot of it.

    Unfortunate. If they'd held to a DR of 10 or greater, it might be largely unnoticeable.
     
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  23. ad180

    ad180 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    I can’t wait to hear it.

    My 10LP set arrives on Tuesday... hopefully I’ll be fully recovered from this head cold by then. My left ear is congested and can’t hear much outside of ringing! Terrible timing!
     
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  24. YMC4

    YMC4 EVthing or Nothing

    Location:
    The Valley, CA.
    speaking purely on terms of 'content'...i have zero issue with what has been released so far from the estate.
    there's always going to be nitpick here & there from somebody but come on....think about the prospects of how thing were just few short years ago :winkgrin:

    ps: 2nd disc is actually my favorite from the whole set...video version of Automatic, special dance mix 'edit' of LRCorvette...those will be my go-to version from now on.

    who else is ready for 35th Anniversary Around The World In A Day next year ?:goodie:!
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
  25. Not to me. Like a lot of Prince records, I don't love the drum sound. The orchestrations and layers are beautiful. Guitars seems a bit dull or muted on this one, though (with the grand exception of b-side Alexa de Paris).
     

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