New Turntable In the House: Thorens TD-309

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by dividebytube, Dec 3, 2019.

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  1. dividebytube

    dividebytube Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    [​IMG]

    Not a detailed review since I just got the Thorens 309 with Ortofon 2M Bronze cart in yesterday and have only spun a dozen records so far. It's an upgrade to my old workhorse, a Dual CS-5000 which was starting to get outclassed by the rest of the gear.

    Initial impressions: bass response is tremendous with shades, timbre, and a serious foundation (well - as serious as a pair of 5" woofers can produce!) versus the old unit. I'm reminded - at least bass-wise - of my old VPI Aries 1 table. Of course that was in a waaay different system so grain of salt and all that.

    The Thorens has a lot more detail overall, with better soundstaging depth and width. It bests the Dual/Shibata tipped OM20 cartridge in that department, making the old turntable sound like a lower end cassette player (or as my wife said, AM radio). So much quieter in the background with less rumble and analog "dirt".

    Overall effect is a more engrossing musical experience. The Aleph J amp and Classe Five preamp are now shining and sounding better than I expected.

    More later - it's always easy to gush with a new piece of gear!
     
  2. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    Congrats! Nice! Do they come with a dust cover or do you have to order one?
     
  3. dividebytube

    dividebytube Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    New - doesn't come with a dust cover, that's a separate item. Mine was bought used and thankfully came with one. It's just a plexi-bit that slots over the spindle, covering up the plinth and tonearm.
     
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  4. dividebytube

    dividebytube Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Another pic: DC motor belt drives an aluminum subplatter which has a thin ridge on top. The glass platter sits on top of that ridge. Additional fet mat on top of the platter.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Jay Kepps

    Jay Kepps Active Member

    Location:
    lakeland, florida
    Wow. Truly beautiful. A work of art.
     
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  6. dividebytube

    dividebytube Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    some listening notes:

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    Dead Can Dance - Into the Labyrinth is a well-recorded gem. The Thorens/Ortofon combination reveals quite a bit more detail, a pulsing bass, and a soundstage that had width and depth. The music positively soared, leaving, in comparison, the old Dual sounding like an AM radio. Voices were especially good, with excellent body and realism. Congestion was nil, each instrument sitting in its own space without confusion or muddiness.

    Background noise, on this original 1993 UK pressing, was suppressed with any ticks and pops riding on a separate plane of the music.



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    Neil Young's live acoustic album - Massey Hall 1971 - is a well-recorded album. A good system should sound like live music, revealing not only excellent timbre but the very hall itself. The Thorens TD 309 does a very good job here. If I close my eyes it does feel and sound like I'm really there, enjoying the concert. The only break in the spell is the lack of chatter behind me, and of course no cigarette smoke.

    The reverberation or natural slap of the hall walls can be heard. Impressive with much more life than any digital rig I've ever heard.



    [​IMG]
    Animals
    is my favorite Pink Floyd album so I was looking forward to hear what the Thorens to do. Instead of a big vibrant soundscape, I began to hear a lot of compression (at higher levels). Once I turned the volume down, the compression disappeared. As an experiment I went upstairs and pulled out my backup amplifier, the venerable Adcom 545, which has roughly 4x the power of the Aleph J.

    Long story short, it turned out that the Thorens had such an extended bottom end that it was making my low-powered single-ended Aleph J clip! Such is the life of trying to live with so little power with a pair of 86dB speakers. This pointed to a future speaker upgrade.


    [​IMG]
    With the Aleph J back in the system, I went for something a little less bombastic. Gabor Szabo was a Hungarian guitarist with a delicate touch. He died too young but luckily left a large body of beautiful work. The album High Contrast works well with the Thorens: with speedy lead note changes, the shifting dynamic drum work and the perfect rhythm guitar genius of Bobby Womack.. The attack of the guitar is just about right, never edgy, revealing the intricacies and subtle methods of Szabo. The imaging, given the multi-miked nature of the recording, is also very good with the lead guitar slightly forward of the rest of the instruments.



    As you can tell I was quite taken by the Thorens, at least once I understood that it had such a wider dynamic range than the Dual CS5000. This lower, more refined bass response caused all sort of havoc with my amplifier/speaker pairing, leading me to the decision that a more efficient pair of speakers is in my future.

    As regards to overall sound quality:

    Bass: Dynamic, at least within the limitations of the small Wharfedale speakers. The midbass frequencies are special here with lovely timbre and shades that I've heard only on the better turntables. It's the sort of bass that I prefer over digital, which can plod and sound artificial.

    Midrange: Subtle, expansive and revealing. Different recordings, well, sound different. So there's not a lot of coloration or analog "dither" (noise) over the music. Once again it's not a sterile presentation, which can occur with lower-end digital, but shines a light on the notes in an engrossing weigh. It's also easy to shift attention to another instrument. Organic is a word that comes to mind, but not overly warm like some noisier turntables.

    Treble: Smooth, provided the cartridge is setup correctly. An aggressive recording is not going to sound rolled off, but something well-balanced won't sound dark either. There is a nice sparkle and shimmer too.

    Other: This sort of tight analog foundation seems to be rare but adds to the rhythmic toe-tapping experience of music. More than once I found my foot moving with the beat. The turntable plays very quietly, doing an excellent disappearing act in minimizing coloration. The Ortofon 2M Bronze is a great tracker too, playing the last songs without any audible IGD.
     
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  7. rebellovw

    rebellovw Forum Resident

    Location:
    hell
    Nice looking deck congrats
     
  8. Dream On

    Dream On Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Congrats. I used to own a 309. Very nice table - sounds as good as it looks. Sometimes I am tempted to pick up another one but I'm quite happy with my VPI and I think I'm going to spend my efforts upgrading it rather than stay on the merry-go-round. But if I was looking for a table, it would be near the top of my list.

    The only thing I wasn't crazy about with the 309 was the headshell - made installing a cart more difficult than it should be, at least I thought so.
     
  9. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    I doubt this table is even Planar 3 quality apart from the metal inner platter. You may find it wanting with more full range speakers? Very simple plinth with some nice styling and a decent arm. I'm surprised you are so enthusiastic if you had an Aries. It appears to do the basics well. What you describe I would expect from any competent TT at this price level.
     
  10. rebellovw

    rebellovw Forum Resident

    Location:
    hell
    Ummm he seems to like it very much are you telling him he shouldn’t? Why piss on someone’s joy?
     
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  11. Dream On

    Dream On Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    The 309 is a suspended design - totally different than a P3. I had a P3 for a while as well. They are both nice tables. I think the 309 sounded better and it certainly feels much more substantial and better built, and I suspect the suspension also helps it deal with vibrations better than the P3 does with the low mass approach. Once you are in the $1K+ ballpark I think you should be getting a nice table that sounds great - of course the 309 is significantly more expensive than that.
     
    Lucca90 likes this.
  12. dividebytube

    dividebytube Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Yeah I'm no fan of the headshell either. Seems like a strange design allowing little left to right movement for cartridge adjustment. You had better hope the cartridge you buy is perfect.

    Regarding the P3 - I'm no turntable newbie. I've owned a solid plinths before and wanted to try a suspended design (again). The Thorens really is quite nice for the (used) price I paid for it. Certainly better than the low-mass arm Dual. To each his own.
     
  13. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    It doesn't look like a full suspended design. More like some kind of sprung feet? Thorens have some new models at a higher level that replicate their traditional sprung models of old but with springs in compression rather than stretched.
     
  14. blair207

    blair207 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fife, Scotland
    Can I ask how you are finding this with extended use. I’m thinking of going to hear an ex demo at a local dealer tomorrow?
     
  15. dividebytube

    dividebytube Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    I paid $1300/used and it also came with an Ortofon 2M Bronze cartridge, which would be a big upgrade over the stock (!) AT95S. Given the price and the upgraded cartridge, it's a good deal. As my system evolves I'll be looking at a (far into the) future upgrade but I have no idea what that will be given I think I will have to spend a considerable amount of $$$ to get to the next level of analog playback.

    But... given my recent speaker purchase of KEF R500s, the Thorens TD309 is still holding its own with the rest of my gear. At this stage I'm more interested it trying a tube phono preamplifier than replacing the turntable. With my Classe Five preamplifier I'm still getting excellent detail, very nice deep bass with different shades of timbre, along with extended treble detail, etc. I'm now in the position where I will be trying to find push the boundaries of finesse - more transparency, more detail, a little better soundstaging, etc. The table - at least at this point - doesn't seem to be the stopper. If I put my previous table - a Dual CS5000 and Schiit Mani preamp - back into the system the difference between the two setups is stark.
     
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  16. Raphael Mabo

    Raphael Mabo Music nerd

    Location:
    Gnesta, Sweden
    Welcome to the club, I love my TD309 too. :) I use mine with a Benz Micro MC Silver and it's a lovely combination. :)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
  17. Raphael Mabo

    Raphael Mabo Music nerd

    Location:
    Gnesta, Sweden
    What do you mean?
    The MDF-plinth sits on a subchassi (it's underneath the turntable instead of inside it) with a 3 point suspension. The chassi is made of low resonance composite material with metal reinforcements. The springs is inside the feets and it has a controlled movement due to built-in membranes - they were designed by Fink Audio Consulting, headed by the famous Karl-Heinz Fink (Tannoy, Q-Accoustics, KEF, ALR-Jordan among others, and personal friend with the late Ken Ishiwata - Marantz Europe). The suspension in the feets can be individually adjusted for weight (good if you, for example, wants to use the Thorens Stabilizer weight on the platter, the springs needs re-adjustment to cope with the weight, an inex/allen-key is included with the turntable to adjust the suspension). The suspension lowers the resonance frequency lower than traditional suspended design.

    The DC motor is electronically controlled by an advanced control circuits, and the motor is de-coupled from the plinth by the use of twin membranes, it "floats" between the membranes. Measured wow and flutter (by Hifi News & Record review) is 0,03%. The motor is on the front left under the glass platter, diagonally from the tonearm pivot point - to further lower resonances, reducing vibrations and stabilising. Not a new idea, Funk Firm also places their motor this way.

    The tonearm is Thorens high-end TP92 arm with rolled aluminium tube and resonance damper, with low friction high quality bearings from the japanese maker MBR. I rate this tonearm higher than the Rega RB330, it really is a great full aluminium design. It can be adjusted for VTA and azimuth. This tonearm is also used on Thorens higher-end models (TD1600/1601) but it was originally released with the TD309.

    To the front left you can see a stablizing weight of full metal, this is for balancing the turntable so it's level. It's movable if you change tonearm to one of a different weight, you need to move the stabilisator weight so you get the plinth level.

    I've listened to the Rega P3 and the TD309 eats if for breakfast. The TD309 competes with the RP6. In that comparison, my vote still goes to the Thorens.
    Rega has an energetic full-on sound, the TD309 is more open, transparent and neutral sounding with great show of the musical flow and micro-nuances in the music. It works very well with my Benz Micro MC Silver.

    The TD309 was engineered by Fink Audio Consulting (Karl-Heinz Fink and Walter Fuchs) in collaboration with the famous german hifi-designer Helmut Thiele (who has designed some other turntables for Thorens in the past, and also works for many others - like Magnat Audio). The very same team engineered and designed the new TD1600/1601 that has got glowing reviews.

    It's an assymetric design because this lowers standing resonance waves in the plinth.

    The TD309 was awarded EISA 2010/2011 for best turntable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
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  18. Raphael Mabo

    Raphael Mabo Music nerd

    Location:
    Gnesta, Sweden
    Re: the headshell. It's the same idea as the German high-end makes Clearaudio and Acoustic Signature uses on some of their tonearms. I like it. Just mount the cartrige on the headshell - it's actually more of a "cartridge carrier" - , then put on the tonearm and adjust it front-back and then tighten the single screw. It was choosen because it gives lower resonance than a standard SME coupled headshell.
    It's adjustable for azimuth and you can, actually, also turn the cartrige sideways if wanting too if you have a cartridge with off-center cantilever. VTA can also be changed.
     
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  19. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    I actually love this tonearm! Its an excellent tonearm as I have one on my PE 4040. Looks simply from a distance...but its actually very very good!
     
  20. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    Your arm looks a little different! As looks like a metal tube is there to hide the leads from the tonarm to the cartridge ?
     
  21. Raphael Mabo

    Raphael Mabo Music nerd

    Location:
    Gnesta, Sweden
    No, it's an optical illusion. It's the top of my carbon brush that I have to the left of the TD309. It looks like it's sticking out from the tonearm, but it's actually on the shelve. :)
     
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  22. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    Can you post the pic again please? It’s not posting now.
     
  23. Raphael Mabo

    Raphael Mabo Music nerd

    Location:
    Gnesta, Sweden
    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
  24. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    I still can’t see pictures.
     
  25. Davey

    Davey NP: Hania Rani/Dobrawa Czocher ~ Inner Symphonies

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Depending on your browser, you can right click on the image tag and view it in another tab or window. I think the problem is that it's not a link to a standard image type, it's a link to the icloud page hosting the image...

    Code:
    https://www.icloud.com/photos/#0Py4CszrKevPERFHHdZmKCZjg

    [​IMG]
     
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