Wow & Flutter Rega P1

How do you test?

 

I used the dr freikart? stuff, I don't think they are making it anymore due to poor quality pressings of the test record.

 

Must say that video was not impressive on any level.

Had a tour of the Naim facility many moons ago and that was a properly laid out tidy factory that you would be proud of.

If I was a prospective Rega customer my barge pole would be out of storage and ready to go.

 

The speed issue has forever been Rega's Achilles heel, though having demonstrated the Planar 2 and 3 on hundreds of occasions in the eighties and nineties, the number of times it proved a consideration for potential customers was incredibly low and the number of people blessed / cursed with perfect pitch even smaller.

Obviously there are a number of turntables that perform better in this area, but at similar price points, they have different compromises which obviously some prefer.

I do believe that the Neo is a significant product for Rega and if I was running a Planar 3 for example, the Neo would probably be the first upgrade I would make if I couldn't afford a Planar 6 / Neo.

 

There is more high tech stuff in new car brakes these days and major manufacturers will have invested millions in R&D. Despite this many cars have many false tyre pressure monitoring problems. Even though the factory has expanded massively since I knew it, Rega are still a small specialist company and have to invest carefully.

Over the years the motor Rega used found its way in several other turntables, some of these have a way of being adjusted and unsurprisingly when adjusted correctly, then run with good speed accuracy.

 

I don't think that Roy would agree with you that Rega like to cut corners, rather they make conscious manufacturing and production decisions. These have served Rega rather well for the last 45+ years.

 

I watched that video and a quick couple of bits from others in the series and it's a very casual affair with Roy showing Michael Fremer around whilst production going on. No pretence and you saw a busy factory making a lot of reasonably low value products, which are generally very respected.

The Naim open day was a completely different affair. The event was set up for Naim owners, dealers and the press and was held after the Naim / Linn split. There was no production going on and it was an extremely well choreographed event - Naim showed exactly what they wanted to and people came away with a very good impression.

From memory Paul Stephenson also did a very good demo of the range and most owners would have come away thinking about upgrading. I thought Naim put on a tremendous event. Compared to Rega, Naim manufacture far less, but much higher value products, so are never going to as chaotic.

The other couple of times I went down to Salisbury were on normal factory days and the factory didn't have the laid back vibe of the open day and had the noise of everyday workers - not on best behaviour!

 

I didn’t visit the Naim factory on an open day, it was on business though it was probably about 15 years back now.

Also I’ve worked for a number of broadcast manufacturing companies over the years. None of which would have accepted a factory as messy and disorganised as that.

It looks like they have a bunch of people who know what they are doing so not knocking them for that but really they need someone to organise that place. Drawers overflowing with components and random racks of parts scattered about does not look good.

 

Sorry, I'm not sure where I got the open day from!

Certainly isn't organised in a lean / 6S manner and yes, Naim was more organised 30 years ago, so agree with your comments.

 

It’s just a shame as I see it. The UK has some great engineering brains and some great companies punching well above their weight but we let ourselves down when it comes to disciplined professionalism.

It wouldn’t take much to sort out those problems at all.

 

As an ex-6S champion and having been involved in several lean projects I should 100% agree with you. At work we have regular visitors and they are usually very impressed with the clean factory, KPI boards, visual management and the automation that has been introduced.

A previous work place was completely laid out for utmost efficiency, extremely clean, lean - the layout changes had been undertaken by an exceedingly successful American company. The new layout probably looked fantastic for visitors. BUT the workers had their family photos taken down and looked like battery hens, talking frowned upon and people having to ask permission to go to the toilet.

Quality dropped massively, key personnel left disenchanted, first time pass rate dropped from around 95% to 40%! Apparently it took nearly a year to get close to the previous figures.

With happy staff, people go the extra mile and care about quality, being timed to seconds, people pass on work with errors rather than right first time. Should management and directors care about factory image, or the quality of the product?

With Roy Gandy having been at Rega since 1973, he could be looked at as old school with no understanding of the benefits of a clean, organised lean factory, or simply a really smart guy who understands that his staff make or break the product. For those reasons, I see plenty in the video that is very impressive and don't judge Rega, or their ability to make great, value for money products by a bit of untidiness.

Terry Bateman, the electronics guy in the video is a very good designer. This is, an interesting article: Terry Bateman tells the story of the Rega Brio-R | The Ear

 

Hello!
I bought a REGA Planar in 1993 and started to notice that this turntable was not the best when it comes to the stability of the rotation speed.
This problem got worse over time, and five years later I gave up the so-called audiophile turntables (audiophile = utopia), and bought a real world turntable for real world vinyl records: Technics SL 1200!

 

So you're comparing a €300 turntable with a €1000+ one and then come here to say audiophile quality is crap? I don't even know where to start...

 

You have already started: a € 300 toy can be considered an "audiophile" turntable. I respect your opinion.

 

I had a Technics SL1200 but found problems with the sound of the toy, now Ive upgraded to a real world audiophile turntable, the Continuum Audio Labs Caliburn Turntable for only $150,000!

 

I've owned only a few turntables over the years I've had a stereo system (mid-60's). The earliest one I remember was a Pioneer PL12D that I bought new in, probably 1974. I think the turntable I had before that one was a cheap Garrad but I can't recall for sure. The Pioneer was a belt drive and I don't recall speed issues with it but I replaced it about nine years later with the direct drive Technics SL-QL1, a quartz locked linear arm table I still use today without a lick of maintenance other than cartridge replacement and VTF adjustment. I bought a lovely looking Marantz 6100 a few years ago to have a second turntable but I had nothing but trouble with speed issues. Replaced the belt, lubed it, showed it to a tech acquaintance, and it seemed unsolvable. Sold it (with full disclosure). I also, around the same time, bought a Denon DP23F DD auto table and have had zero issues with it. Bought my son an old Marantz TT530 DD auto table and no issues with it either.

When I decided I wanted to have a second higher quality TT for downstairs and move my SL-QL1 upstairs to the living room, I looked at everything under a grand and came close to taking a chance on the Pioneer PLX1000 because I was not going to get a belt drive no matter how popular they are with many audiophiles. However, when the opportunity came up to buy a new Technics 1210GR for $1236 (accommodation price from a client business), done deal. I don't know about some of the belt drive tables but I read about this speed issue on Regas over and over. Plus, I prefer interchangeable shells. I cannot imagine buying a belt drive in the thousand dollar plus range over any of Technics current DD offerings. Why punish yourself having to deal with speed problems or required upgrades to solve them?

 

You know, it is OK to mention that you have a GR without stating the price you paid.

 

I don't do it to rub it in but more because that's the only reason I bought it. I would not have at $1700. Probably...

 

People call it what they want. What doesn't make sense in your story is talking about Rega with disdain because their entry model couldn't match a turntable that goes for 5 times the price. It's not a matter of respecting the opinion, I know the Technics will do better speed wise 100% of the time, but your comparison and the reason you posted in this thread are baseless.

 

Exactly my point, thanks for making it easier to understand.

 

Or any decent table.

 

The SL1200's went for 5 times the price of a Planar? I did not realize that.

 

In good condition anyway. Ive been looking for a sucker for a year now.

 

For a good Technics vs Rega comparison, Technics SL-1200GR vs Rega Planar 6 would be fairer - in the UK the Rega is cheaper.

They are both very good turntables, both have their supporters and make music listening a very pleasurable experience. They both measure far better, BUT are several times the price of the Rega P1.

 

When making such a comparison, we have to think about what they cost new, not used.

Yep, exactly. I'm still considering what I'm gonna buy next because money is an issue atm, but when I get the funds, I'm probably going with a P6. With the PSU, I'm pretty sure it'll be toe to toe with a Technics and I prefer the Rega sound anyway so, to me, it wins.